A better Best to Worst mods list.

[GasSavers_Red]

Accelerating:
Ironically enough, flogging mine gets the best mileage when accelerating. Gasoline engines are load bearing beasts; more efficient when working within their specific load ranges.

Buy a car that gets decent mpg. A SRT-8 isn't going to cut it
Eh anything is possible. I'd like to submit my rolling brick as an example.

4)Minimize engine accessory use.
This could vary greatly depending on your engine and accessory setup. For my 4.0 the only thing that consumes extra gas is my A/C compressor. The alternator and PS under full usage doesn't phase it.

Run the lightest weight synthetic oil you can get away with.

Varies again on engine, running too light or too slippery of an oil can cause excessive wear on internals. Mobile1 is known via oil analysis to consume 4.0 blocks due to its inability to adhere to parts.

(Automatic transmissions)
Dropping into N from 75+mph has yet to blow up any of my familys autos....So long as the input shaft is spinning usually the oil pump is also going.

Most automatic equipped cars have a tranny cooler built into the radiator or have an external cooler located elsewhere (01 Town and Country). Unless your cooling fan has been knocked offline somehow and your cooling system as a whole has been heating up, your tranny isn't going to die anytime soon. If you tow, then death is a possibility.

Drafting.

One doesn't have to ride on the trucker's rear end, anywhere from 2-3 seconds behind will usually net benefits. Or if you have a CB let the driver know you are there and what you are doing so that during an emergency s/he is aware of your existence.


E-Fan
I did that, noticed no change in MPG, little peppier down low but thats about it.

Regearing

Rear gearing is quite expensive, going from $500-$1000 a diff. Going as far as 3.73 to 3.07s or even 2.73s will make for one gutless ride. Going from 3.07s to 3.73s will up your acceleration but I doubt much of a MPG change.

How will regearing save your tranny? I can see saving the clutch, maybe.


Weight reduction that requires commitment
Lots of $$$$. Viable yes, but not very practical IMO. Works for a track rig or a buggy but on the road? Probably a bad idea. And a new aluminum block runs for quite the pretty penny.

1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...

If your aero is crap, it could help

2) Solar cells for your battery, this will not decrease alternator load by any reasonable amount and is generally a retarded idea. The costs GREATLY outweighs the savings if there are any at all because of the weight you added and the cost of this mod. Genuinely horrible idea.

Solar cells aren't that heavy. Plus when you are at work/school whats your rig doing anyway? Sitting out in the open under the sun, might as well peak out the battery so the alternator doesn't have to.

3) Get rid of your alternator completely and charge your battery. Horrible idea again. Not going to explain it, wouldn't work, blah blah blah.

Parents had a '76 Cadillac DeVille with a fried alternator and a 5.0l big block, the thing was good for about 2-3 20 mile trips before the battery would finally crap out.

For toll roads why do I want to spend an extra $20 bucks a month? Thats about half a tank or so right now.


Welcome to GS!

[Bill in Houston]

This is just too funny.

"I'm new to your group, and it's a piece of junk"

You have all been very sweet to him. What a great place.

[landspeed]

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

The other problem I had is the stickies on most good boards are organized

OK

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

To begin:
When thinking of how do increase mpg remember that, gas used is determined by load and RPM. Decreasing load and decreasing RPM are how you will improve mileage.

This makes sense till you think about it. Gas use is determined exactly as above. *Useful Work* is not. E.g. an engine idling at 2200rpm uses less gas than an engine at half-throttle at 2200rpm. However, the engine idling has 0% efficiency, wasting all the gas that goes in, whereas the engine on half-throttle at 2200rpm is running at up to 40% efficiency So, more is less in this case

[QUOTE=Spinningmarkviii;50303]1) Drive less aggressively, and just plain drive less. Keep RPMs down when accelerating, acceleration is where most of your gas is used. If you maintain a constant speed and accelerate tot hat speed at a slower rate your mpg will improve in a direct proportion to how much your driving style improves.{/QUOTE]

See above. Faster acceleration is more efficient than slower accleration, if done correctly.




[QUOTE=Spinningmarkviii;50303]3) Buy a car that gets decent mpg. Guess what? Your Chrysler 300C SRT-8 isn't ever gonna get 30mpg around town. Or 20. Buy something that will.{/QUOTE]

Most members here get 70-130% of the EPA, even in town. So, unless that Chrysler has less than 16mpg about town (EPA), then it will be getting 30 or more mpg around town.

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

10) Air dam blocking, I do not know much about this, obviously it is made to improve aerodynamics and therefore engine load. This can have some horrible effects, especially for your transmission. If you are going to do this you NEED to add a transmission cooler. A transmission cooler is a good idea anyway as it adds more fluid to the system, (and therefore more heat absorbing capacity) and will GREATLY increase transmission life in cars that do not have them from the factory. Obviously also if your cooling system isn't up to snuff this can cause decreased reliability, overheating engine knock leading to blown head gaskets, new engines, and new transmissions. I would strongly consider the potential costs that you could incur as a result of this mod for making a logical decision. However a hotter car will get better gas milage while it runs.

A cars cooling system is designed for the hottest, most humid day, with the owner thrashing the car. So, if you are sympathetic to the car, and drive more gently, you can use a block. I have a partial front undertray, and 100% grille block, and my car doesn't overheat. I do get about 130% of the Town EPA mileage around town, however.

[QUOTE=Spinningmarkviii;50303]11) Drafting. No explanation needed here, but maybe your life isn't worth the extra 2-3 mpg? Again cost and benefits, if you are a bastard with no children and the world doesn't need you, draft all the semis you want.{/QUOTE]

I get 7-8mpg more drafting; I guess the faster the semi goes, the more gains you can get, but also the more dangerous it is. Here in the UK 'semis' go at 56mph by law (all electronically limited to 53mph in reality). Real 'hardocore' fuel savers do D-FAS (drafting with the engine off). This is seriously cool and everyone should do it

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...

Kamm shaped spoilers decrease aerodynamic drag. Also, the little spoilers you find on most euro cars these days also decrease drag by promoting clean seperation of the air stream.

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

2) Solar cells for your battery, this will not decrease alternator load by any reasonable amount and is generally a retarded idea. The costs GREATLY outweighs the savings if there are any at all because of the weight you added and the cost of this mod. Genuinely horrible idea.

Actually, this idea kicks a$$!. You could easily get 50W of solar cells, and, if you increase the efficiency of the electronics in the car (e.g. bulbs, more efficienct fuel pump), a significant amount of the energy will come from the sun (directly), rather than from the sun (indirectly from gas).

The second good point is this keeps the battery topped up (especially when engine-off-coasting), meaning less drag on the alternator when driving about.

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

4) Limit power use. Obviously not thought this one out . First, you overestimate the alternator load this causes. Enjoy your radio. The cooler air form driving at night will likely net you better mpg that the load caused by using your headlights... seriously think this out.

The cooler air at night will - increase aerodynamic drag, increase 'pumping losses' from the engine (assuming you are maintaing a constant speed), and slightly worsen fuel vapourisation. The headlights, on the other hand (together with tail lights), will probably take about 300W (or about 0.5 BHP) from your engine, constantly.

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

5) Golf Ball Style Dimples........wtf?

THis would work but I'm sure no-one could actually do it!

-------------------------------------------

Another controversial idea would be...

'Weight reduction is not always good. If you do a lot of driving in hilly country, with low traffic levels, slightly more weight will mean you can put more energy into your car, with the engine at the most efficient power setting, and then coast for longer with the engine off'. I did severe weight reduction (rear tyre, carpets, all seats except drivers, all plastic from boot etc). My best economy has actually happened since I put all the stuff back!

[Spinningmarkviii]

I don't think your group is a piece of junk, just that sticky is a piece of junk. The other one is great. Also I said weight the cost and benefits to make a logical solution for your situation several times throughout. I am not sure how you could not have seen an emphasis on this.

You people are ridiculous attempting to pick apart everything I have just said. Many of the things you are assuming are just wrong or you pick apart them even though you don't know the answer yourself. Mine is for the masses, so you counter with an example that most people aren't going to do. Like have a CB radio. Really, how many people here, even on a gas saving website, have CB radios for this purpose?


RED:

Originally Posted by rh77

Any proof of it being more dangerous?

Yes. Motor Trend did a report on this 4 years ago. It is no longer on their site. If your tires bulge, there will obviously be less of a contact patch. Poor braking. Poor tread wear.


Regearing: Lower ratios (higher numerically) puts less load on the trans. Don't believe me? Fine, learn a little about cars.
AT Shutoff: It does cut fluid to the drum. 20,000 miles is a joke of reliability testing. I have personally seen race built transmissions grenade from doing this after a pass. They did it enough times and it just let go. It will simply take much longer with yours.
Battery instead of Alt:You're honestly arguing with me that its worth not having an alternator so you can make 2-3 20 mile trips?! How many people drive 5 miles to work each day without the radio or A/C on? What percentage of the population would be better served by this.
Weight Reduction:I am building a 1997 Mercury Tracer with a 3.0 Duratec whose goal is 30mpg capable and 13.99 at the track. That serious weight reduction is going to be a lot more viable solution. I thought it was understood in "requires commitment" that doing this is gonna suck ***.
Solar Cells: Really so you've measures how drained the battery is when your car shuts off right? You have some experiment to back this up? (Hint: My sense of self assuredness on this point is the result knowing and being able to defend my points here.)

Thisisntjared: LMAO I will try to keep my e-smug down to a less llama like level.

Snax: I don't care if you stick it in a giant rubber condom an SRT-8 is going to need to ditch the 3.55s it has, and well as lean out quite a bit in the A/F to achieve even a decent cruising mileage. Aerodynamic mods aren't gonna cut it.

Who is talking about oversize injectors? Most cars have injectors that are far from oversize and who are designed for fuel economy and longevity.

If you agree that the majority of something is true, consider that may be the point of the whole argument. For it to be true for the majority.

Fourthbean: "The consensus I have found is that electric windows are lighter than manual, I cannot find a definitive source on this but it makes sense in my mind." The logic of the other thread is full of stuff like this.

Also many of the second list of points were points not only on gas mileage but for cars interested in racing as well.

If you do not like my info, you don't have to use it. I was just posting it for the general good of people here. I have taken the ideas I want to take such as air dam blocking and wheel well covers and will try them. I think with the car I am building they will greatly benefit it. During those long drives to the beach. Thanks guys.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

AT Shutoff: It does cut fluid to the drum. 20,000 miles is a joke of reliability testing. I have personally seen race built transmissions grenade from doing this after a pass. They did it enough times and it just let go. It will simply take much longer with yours.

Whoa nelly! AT shutoff does not equal putting the AT in N, which you talked about initially. In N, most ATs I know of will still have fluid pumped through at a rate equivalent to engine speed. I can't see how occasionally shifting into N increases wear by more than a small amount assuming conservative driving.

[Spinningmarkviii]

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=65025.0

Call a well known high performance automatic builder see what they say. Most people do not know this. L

[repete86]

You're talking about racing transmissions that are only designed to operate for a few high demand seconds at a time in a high power engine running at 140 mph, not a little old Honda slushbox at 55 mph. Many of us on this site have been doing this for long enough to know that it isn't nearly as bad as you claim. Did I mention that my car has about 130k miles on it and still has its original tranny? It's an older automatic. Most that I've seen don't last this long. The fact that I'm doing this and it hasn't died on me or shifted harder is a testament to the reliability of it.

[GasSavers_Red]

Like have a CB radio. Really, how many people here, even on a gas saving website, have CB radios for this purpose?

Mine is for a secondary purpose but it does come in handy for this.

Regearing: Lower ratios (higher numerically) puts less load on the trans. Don't believe me? Fine, learn a little about cars.

You should go wheeling once in a while. You'll notice there is a trend in the carnage that is directly related to the gearing run.

Battery instead of Alt:You're honestly arguing with me that its worth not having an alternator so you can make 2-3 20 mile trips?! How many people drive 5 miles to work each day without the radio or A/C on? What percentage of the population would be better served by this.

You'd be surprised what kind of abuse your battery can take before it completely craps out. If people are driving a mere 5 miles to and from work each day, and at the end of trip their rig sits for say 6 hours, perhaps hooked up to a solar cell are they even going to notice that they don't have an alternator? Long trips this would be a dumb idea, but if you can get from A to B and you are sitting at B long enough to recharge, its not going to matter.

Solar Cells: Really so you've measures how drained the battery is when your car shuts off right? You have some experiment to back this up? (Hint: My sense of self assuredness on this point is the result knowing and being able to defend my points here.)

My IOD is 30 milliamps.

Who is talking about oversize injectors? Most cars have injectors that are far from oversize and who are designed for fuel economy and longevity.

Depends, I'm good for either 4.6l or 10 psi of boost on my stock injectors.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

I'm going with repete86 on this one. There's a member on these boards who has called up Toyota and asked if coasting in N was o.k. wrt transmission fluid pressure and supposedly they said NP. I've been doing it for ~10k miles on a car w/ ~170k miles, so only time will tell I suppose. There's also a huge difference between the KE of a ~12lb drum on a th400 after a 100+mph pass and the smaller (?) drum on a fwd import at ~60mph. There could also be difference in the hydraulic/oiling system that make th400s especially prone to lube issues when put into N at high speeds. I'll see if I can hit up Toyota about this. So far, knock on wood, no one on this board has had any trouble.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii

You people are ridiculous attempting to pick apart everything I have just said. ... Mine is for the masses, so you counter with an example that most people aren't going to do.

What's ridiculous is joining a forum without spending enough time to get a good idea of what kind of people are using it and why. If you had, you would have realized that generating information that's strictly palatable to the masses isn't something that most members here care much about.

With due respect for the aim of (and most of the points in) your original post, and the discussion it generated, your forum etiquette kind of bites, on first impression.