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Old 05-06-2007, 01:26 PM   #1
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A better Best to Worst mods list.

I came here hoping to further improve MPG on a 1997 Mercury Tracer Wagon. So I clicked the sticky for the list of best to worst recommendations. It is often inaccurate with much conjecture, and a lot of posts show a lack of understanding about exactly how a car works. Also with some things that are listed, the mpg you will save, will be off set by the extra amount of strain you are putting on your cars different systems.The other problem I had is the stickies on most good boards are organized, contain few posts, and aren't filled with in-theory-I-hope-and-pray-this-works type posts. I would suggest a moderator edit it accordingly.


I am not going to bother with things that might give you .0001 and claim that every little bit helps when its a waste of time/money. This is grounded in real world advice. I will start out with easy things and thigns that you can simply switch to when the current component wears out and move to more difficult, costly, but still effective things to do.

This sticky was good info:
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=1088

This sticky was bad info:
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2584

To begin:
When thinking of how do increase mpg remember that, gas used is determined by load and RPM. Decreasing load and decreasing RPM are how you will improve mileage.

1) Drive less aggressively, and just plain drive less. Keep RPMs down when accelerating, acceleration is where most of your gas is used. If you maintain a constant speed and accelerate tot hat speed at a slower rate your mpg will improve in a direct proportion to how much your driving style improves.

2) Maintain your car. Worn out 02 sensors (BIG ONE HERE), plugs, dirty trans fluid, dirty oil, etc are all bad for mpg. That rough idle and miss from a bad IAC and torn plug boots aren't helping either. Check and clear codes as they can affect this as well.

3) Buy a car that gets decent mpg. Guess what? Your Chrysler 300C SRT-8 isn't ever gonna get 30mpg around town. Or 20. Buy something that will.

4)Minimize engine accessory use. There are mods to help with this as covered later, but most people underestimate the amount of engine load that goes into turning your A/C, alternator, water pump, and power steering pump. Again I will cover modifications to reduce or eliminate the use of these items later.

5)Weight reduction, take out that spare tire, back seat, passenger seat, rear speakers, stereo system, and anything else that you can. Buying a car with manual items like manual door locks and crank windows will help with this as well. Serious mods to improve this are covered later. Often replacing you chrome wheels (either stock or otherwise) with 15" (or 16" if you have large brakes, and don't wnatt o grind the calipers) OEM/Aftermarket alloys can work wonders for this.

6) Run the lightest weight synthetic oil you can get away with. Change over to a synthetic oil (Not fake synthetic, real synthetic, like amsoil or royal purple. A PAO synthetic) in both your engine and trans. This will improve parts life, acceleration, everything. Running 5W20 engine oil will net you a noticeable mpg increase over say 5w30 or 5W40. Although if your car burns oil you should run the lightest weight you can to prevent it from burning oil.

7) Keep tires inflated, this could even be moved up as it is very important. Over inflating can be dangerous and cause poor tread wear, but I do it on the rear tires of FWD cars. Keep the front of FWD and all of RWD at the correct spec as stated on the sidewall.

8) Run harder or low rolling resistance tires. This is an easy thing to do, however how well it works is questionable. There are conflicting opinions that you can judge for yourself and your situation. There are some safety concerns with this, reading up on them and weighting the cost and benefits of your decisions are the best way to make a logical choice. Some Info: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=29

9) (Automatic transmissions) Shift into neutral and rolling up to stop lights. CAUTION: Shifting into neutral at high speeds (and low speeds) for any distance can be very bad as in automatic transmissions a drum inside will no longer receive lubrication and can explode causing VERY costly and time consuming repairs. Although it is fine at like 10-15 mph for a few feet, or while at a stop light. Do NOT do this at a substantial speed. I know this from drag racing experience where people have blown up their transmissions by shifting into neutral after a pass.

10) Air dam blocking, I do not know much about this, obviously it is made to improve aerodynamics and therefore engine load. This can have some horrible effects, especially for your transmission. If you are going to do this you NEED to add a transmission cooler. A transmission cooler is a good idea anyway as it adds more fluid to the system, (and therefore more heat absorbing capacity) and will GREATLY increase transmission life in cars that do not have them from the factory. Obviously also if your cooling system isn't up to snuff this can cause decreased reliability, overheating engine knock leading to blown head gaskets, new engines, and new transmissions. I would strongly consider the potential costs that you could incur as a result of this mod for making a logical decision. However a hotter car will get better gas milage while it runs.

11) Drafting. No explanation needed here, but maybe your life isn't worth the extra 2-3 mpg? Again cost and benefits, if you are a bastard with no children and the world doesn't need you, draft all the semis you want.

12) Gas mileage indicator, some cars come with them now, adding one helps add consciousness, as well as lets you see what brands of gasoline work best with your car and how well your mods are working. For sure one of the better mods out there.

13) Change to a hotter thermostat. Only do this if your cooling system is up to snuff and properly maintained. Switching form the stock (usually to 170-180) costs little, is easy on most cars, and can net some real world increases. Of course detonation can occur if it gets too hot which will lead to shortened engine life or engine failure.

14) You can add on taller tires to drop cruising RPM.

The following are a little more advanced and require your own research into the cost and benefits. Generally if you cannot perform your own labor, they will not be worth it.

15) BIG ONE HERE. A simple mail order tune and SCT XCal 2 (or whatever is out there for your vehicle) can often net a few mpg (depending on how "on the edge" you're willing to go) This can work well in conjunction with many of the below listed mods. If you have an OBD-II ford vehicle, the Xcal/Xcal2 can be a simply reasonably priced way to have significant long term benefits. There is even a company out there using it to offer a plug and play switch to E85 if its available in your area. The xcal2 has data logging, as well as use in tuning and is a OBD-II code reader.

16) Getting under drive pulleys for your accessories will decrease engine load, although it will adversely affect things like your water pump efficiency and alternator charging ability, this shouldn't really be a problem as long as your cooling system is at factory specs and you don't have a 10 billion watt stereo system. To get maximum fuel economy, Delete AC (Lots of weight removed as well as not using it freeing up engine load), if your car has a version with a manual steering rack or its offered in the aftermarket, delete power steering. Install an electric water pump such as one from Meziere, and run an underdrive pulley on your alternator. This will net a noticeable mpg gain as well as power gain. Lets also not forget those of you who still have a smog pump thats belt driven. Most people here have FWD cars but if you have a RWD car that has a clutched fan for god sakes switch to electric. A Lincoln Mark VIII fan(best) or Ford Taurus fan(still very good) will provide better cooling that many aftermarket fans. Get one from a junk yard.

17) If you have a RWD car, change the rear gear ratio for your type of driving. If you only drive in the city and have a heavy car with 3.08 gears, you can greatly up your mpg (and transmission life) by switching to a more city friendly gear in the range of 3.55s or 3.73s. This will also greatly help acceleration of course. Conversely if you drive mostly on the highway and have 3.27s or 3.55s in your car switching to 3.08s (using ford 8.8 gears in this example) or 2.73s will drop cruising RPM.

18) If you have a car that asks for high octane gas or want to run a ragged on the edge type tune, a methanol kit can be built in your garage easily for less than $200 installed. You can run isopropal alky, washer fluid, straight meth, or straight water, either way this will increase octane, decrease detonation, and allow you to lean out your gas use and A/F even more in the upper RPMs. Great for sue in conjunction with a dyno tune.

19) Weight reduction that requires commitment. This goes beyond removing seats and spare tires that you don't need. Take out everything, make a sheet metal dash, A/C, heater core, smaller battery, aluminum radiator, remove all sound deadening, switch to super light weight aluminum wheels, there is a long list. Aluminum heads, aluminum blocks, etc. Heres just a short list with some expected gains.: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=21593.0

20) Weight reduction/aerodynamic body kits. The only time this is worth it is if you car has body damage that needs to be replaced anyway. Having said that replacing steel components with fiber glass, and you glass side windows with lexan can shave off some extra weight.. You can get full fiberglass front ends from places like harryglass and others. For aerodynamic body kits, many if not most of them are actually worse for aerodynamics. Weigh the cost and benefits for your situation carefully here. This is more race car stuff, if youre trying to have a fast car that also achieves good mpg,

21) Got boost? Turbocharging and supercharging will allot you a significant increase in gas mileage. I have seen up to 8mpg increases when properly tuned. I myself had a supercharger on my 1998 Mark VIII and picked up 2mpg on AVERAGE and that was with a heavier foot in a 4000+lb full weight car. We're talking 150mph+ highway blasts and drag racing factored in.

22) Simple cold air intake and higher flowing exhaust. Make your engines job easier and you will net a small mileage increase and HP increase.

23) Engine/Transmission swaps. Obviously a more fuel efficient engine or one that isn't a worn out piece of crap, will get you better mpg. A manual transmission not only offers you more control but also reduces drivetrain losses.

Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...
2) Solar cells for your battery, this will not decrease alternator load by any reasonable amount and is generally a retarded idea. The costs GREATLY outweighs the savings if there are any at all because of the weight you added and the cost of this mod. Genuinely horrible idea.
3) Get rid of your alternator completely and charge your battery. Horrible idea again. Not going to explain it, wouldn't work, blah blah blah.
4) Limit power use. Obviously not thought this one out . First, you overestimate the alternator load this causes. Enjoy your radio. The cooler air form driving at night will likely net you better mpg that the load caused by using your headlights... seriously think this out.
5) Golf Ball Style Dimples........wtf?
6) Free All Toll Roads.....I don't know where you're from, but most toll roads have electronic mechanisms so that you don't have to stop and it gets taken from your account. Further more freeing all toll roads would decrease the incentive not to take the toll roads and would cause congestion. Think this out.
7) Closing Windows....Yes if you can, however its better to have them open than to use the A/C.

Comments, suggestions, questions are welcome.
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Old 05-06-2007, 01:56 PM   #2
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Well, first

Well first, welcome to the site...

Second, have you searched each of these ideas for experiments or further discussion?

Quote:
Decreasing load and decreasing RPM are how you will improve mileage.
Not necessarily. An engine is most efficient at load. If you're referring to electrical load, then that's different.

Quote:
Over inflating can be dangerous and cause poor tread wear, but I do it on the rear tires of FWD cars. Keep the front of FWD and all of RWD at the correct spec as stated on the sidewall.
Any proof of it being more dangerous?

I'm afraid most of these are over-generalizations -- especially for a first post.

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Old 05-06-2007, 02:03 PM   #3
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9) (Automatic transmissions) Shift into neutral and rolling up to stop lights. CAUTION: Shifting into neutral at high speeds (and low speeds) for any distance can be very bad as in automatic transmissions a drum inside will no longer receive lubrication and can explode causing VERY costly and time consuming repairs. Although it is fine at like 10-15 mph for a few feet, or while at a stop light. Do NOT do this at a substantial speed. I know this from drag racing experience where people have blown up their transmissions by shifting into neutral after a pass.
Considering I've been coasting in neutral with the engine on and off if I'll be coasting for more than about 30 seconds for the last 20k miles from speeds ranging from 10 to 70 mph, I think that I can safely say that the transmission will not explode. The bearing is still lubricated when the engine is on, so coasting in neutral with the engine on is no issue at all. When it's off, it isn't receiving lubrication, but I don't believe that it will lose its lube and cause damage in the 30-60 seconds that it's spinning before the car comes to a stop.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...
Depeding on the spoiler, on could be used to redirect flow over the back of the car to increase mileage. Certainly not a stock one necessarily, but the idea is still there.
2) Solar cells for your battery, this will not decrease alternator load by any reasonable amount and is generally a retarded idea. The costs GREATLY outweighs the savings if there are any at all because of the weight you added and the cost of this mod. Genuinely horrible idea.
You should use more respectful language if you want anyone to respect you ideas.
3) Get rid of your alternator completely and charge your battery. Horrible idea again. Not going to explain it, wouldn't work, blah blah blah.
Yes, I totally agree, no explanation! It's all bull****! /sarcasm
4) Limit power use. Obviously not thought this one out . First, you overestimate the alternator load this causes. Enjoy your radio. The cooler air form driving at night will likely net you better mpg that the load caused by using your headlights... seriously think this out.
The affect of electric load is shown by alternatorless driving having a significant impact on fe, it may not be much just to turn down your radio, but it does more than nothing. I would like to hear an explanation of your night driving benefits, as I have noticed the opposite...
5) Golf Ball Style Dimples........wtf?
6) Free All Toll Roads.....I don't know where you're from, but most toll roads have electronic mechanisms so that you don't have to stop and it gets taken from your account. Further more freeing all toll roads would decrease the incentive not to take the toll roads and would cause congestion. Think this out.
7) Closing Windows....Yes if you can, however its better to have them open than to use the A/C.

Comments, suggestions, questions are welcome.
All in all, I think you restated most things well, but your hostility towards certain ideas makes me skeptical of your overall thought process.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:23 PM   #5
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I personally like the logic of the previous thread over this one. Your facts seem a bit skewed at some points.


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Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
3) Buy a car that gets decent mpg. Guess what? Your Chrysler 300C SRT-8 isn't ever gonna get 30mpg around town. Or 20. Buy something that will.
Maybe not, but my sub 2 ton car can certainly get 25MPG doing my daily driving. When calculating what it would cost me to get a car with better gas-mileage, going from 25 to 40 would save me 400 dollars A YEAR in gas, that is driving 840 miles a month. 400 a year is certainly not enough to buy a different car as I would probably spend double that getting it up to snuff in repairs. Maybe for other people a different car would make more sense but doesn't work out for me.

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Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
5)Weight reduction, take out that spare tire, back seat, passenger seat, rear speakers, stereo system, and anything else that you can. Buying a car with manual items like manual door locks and crank windows will help with this as well. Serious mods to improve this are covered later. Often replacing you chrome wheels (either stock or otherwise) with 15" (or 16" if you have large brakes, and don't wnatt o grind the calipers) OEM/Aftermarket alloys can work wonders for this.
The consensus I have found is that electric windows are lighter than manual, I cannot find a definitive source on this but it makes sense in my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
10) Air dam blocking, I do not know much about this, obviously it is made to improve aerodynamics and therefore engine load. This can have some horrible effects, especially for your transmission. If you are going to do this you NEED to add a transmission cooler. A transmission cooler is a good idea anyway as it adds more fluid to the system, (and therefore more heat absorbing capacity) and will GREATLY increase transmission life in cars that do not have them from the factory. Obviously also if your cooling system isn't up to snuff this can cause decreased reliability, overheating engine knock leading to blown head gaskets, new engines, and new transmissions. I would strongly consider the potential costs that you could incur as a result of this mod for making a logical decision. However a hotter car will get better gas milage while it runs.
I hadn't heard about the transmission being cooled as a big deal, will have to look into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
11) Drafting. No explanation needed here, but maybe your life isn't worth the extra 2-3 mpg? Again cost and benefits, if you are a bastard with no children and the world doesn't need you, draft all the semis you want.
How about everyone can do what they want inside the law and decide for themselves if they want to draft? I didn't realize I was asking you for permission to draft. I like that you are presenting drafting as possibly dangerous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
12) Gas mileage indicator, some cars come with them now, adding one helps add consciousness, as well as lets you see what brands of gasoline work best with your car and how well your mods are working. For sure one of the better mods out there.
Definitely a good thing to do, I just wish I could find a cheap one to hook up to my car that doesn't have obd. I would need something to read my mileage and something to read my fuel flow and put two and two together for me. My car doesn't have any computers micro managing it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
16) Getting under drive pulleys for your accessories will decrease engine load, although it will adversely affect things like your water pump efficiency and alternator charging ability, this shouldn't really be a problem as long as your cooling system is at factory specs and you don't have a 10 billion watt stereo system. To get maximum fuel economy, Delete AC (Lots of weight removed as well as not using it freeing up engine load), if your car has a version with a manual steering rack or its offered in the aftermarket, delete power steering. Install an electric water pump such as one from Meziere, and run an underdrive pulley on your alternator. This will net a noticeable mpg gain as well as power gain. Lets also not forget those of you who still have a smog pump thats belt driven. Most people here have FWD cars but if you have a RWD car that has a clutched fan for god sakes switch to electric. A Lincoln Mark VIII fan(best) or Ford Taurus fan(still very good) will provide better cooling that many aftermarket fans. Get one from a junk yard.
How long will an electric water pump last? 5 years? Might not be anywhere near cost effective, have you done calculations on that to make sure it isn't a .0001% mileage gain after calculating what you spend on a pump?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...
2) Solar cells for your battery, this will not decrease alternator load by any reasonable amount and is generally a retarded idea. The costs GREATLY outweighs the savings if there are any at all because of the weight you added and the cost of this mod. Genuinely horrible idea.
3) Get rid of your alternator completely and charge your battery. Horrible idea again. Not going to explain it, wouldn't work, blah blah blah.
4) Limit power use. Obviously not thought this one out . First, you overestimate the alternator load this causes. Enjoy your radio. The cooler air form driving at night will likely net you better mpg that the load caused by using your headlights... seriously think this out.
5) Golf Ball Style Dimples........wtf?
6) Free All Toll Roads.....I don't know where you're from, but most toll roads have electronic mechanisms so that you don't have to stop and it gets taken from your account. Further more freeing all toll roads would decrease the incentive not to take the toll roads and would cause congestion. Think this out.
7) Closing Windows....Yes if you can, however its better to have them open than to use the A/C.

Comments, suggestions, questions are welcome.
Have you read through many of the experiments completed here on the GS forums? Granted a solar panel doesn't create much but if you only drive your car every few days and leave it in the sun the rest of the time it can add up. Especially if said car is a 3 cylinder metro.

If you think getting rid of an alternator is a bad idea then please explain it, a member here runs his car without an alternator and uses batteries he charges at home to provide his electric needs. Did you read about his experience with this technique?

Would you disagree that having your windows closed improves gas-mileage? If it helps it is nice to know, maybe some people are like me and can open up a vent inside the car in lieu of opening a window and didn't know before that it would be better for fuel economy with the vent.


Instead of making a whole different thread bashing the previous maybe we should continue to collaborate on our ideas and experiences and grow the other list. Just my opinion.

Fourthbean
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:44 PM   #6
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I honestly haven't read either sticky. Regardless, I'll attempt to confine my thoughts to what I actually know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post
1) . . . accelerate tot hat speed at a slower rate your mpg will improve in a direct proportion to how much your driving style improves.
That is a falacy for one important reason:

1) Injectors that are oversized to support higher horsepower are poor at low pulse width operation. With very short pulse widths, they may not open fully, or may open irregularly. Additionally, variances between the injector flow rates are magnified at low pulse widths. This results in uneven fueling across the cylinders with a variance between each combustion cycle.

Because the oxygen sensor only sees the average of this condition, the computer makes it's adjustments based upon that average. Nevermind that one cylinder may be consistantly running slightly rich and wasting fuel while another is running more lean - both of which result in lower economy at low engine loads.

At moderate loading, the injectors are working more within their specified operation range and can more accurately meter the fuel individually, and the variance between the flow rates of each injector is minimized.



Quote:
3) Buy a car that gets decent mpg. Guess what? Your Chrysler 300C SRT-8 isn't ever gonna get 30mpg around town. Or 20. Buy something that will.
I'll just say never say 'never'. Aerodynamic enhancements can count for allot on a highway driven vehicle.




Quote:
11) Drafting. No explanation needed here, but maybe your life isn't worth the extra 2-3 mpg? Again cost and benefits, if you are a bastard with no children and the world doesn't need you, draft all the semis you want.
That's a bit of an absolutist position isn't it? One need not be 3 feet off the rear of a semi trailer to reap the benefit of a draft. I've frequently found benefit at distances well in excess of what other dimwits will dart into and follow at. Even 50' off the rear of a full height semi trailer offers a draft benefit that is relatively safe - particularly when you consider the typical superior stopping distances of passenger vehicles. (But I do drive a 4wd pickup which will presumeably clear any hazards within the lane that the semi does.)



Quote:
Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...
I agree that the majority of spoilers on most cars are simply decorative fluff, but even minor changes to how air seperates from the rear of the car can make a measurable impact on FE. I'd be reluctant to add one on the hope that FE could be improved with it, but already having one leaves one the option of testing for a change without drilling any new holes.

Quote:
3) Get rid of your alternator completely and charge your battery. Horrible idea again. Not going to explain it, wouldn't work, blah blah blah.
I wouldn't do it myself, but people are doing it with success. What that means to FE however is open to scrutiny.


That said, you are entitled to your opinion. What many people here are trying to do is find effective means to improve the FE of the vehicles they drive because the manufacturers were too cheap or nervous to implement.

Not everybody's driving conditions are the same either. While one person might kill a battery on their long commute by disengaging the alternator, another person who only commutes 5 miles to work could do this indefinately with recharges at home. Likewise, many people drive what works for them and must work within the restrictions of that. Sorry, but as much as I'd like to be able to, a Prius isn't going to tow my 5000 lb boat and trailer (very far anyway). But a 1 mpg improvement on the FE of my truck for daily use is worth attempting to achieve. (At $4/gallon and a 30 gal fill, that's worth $9 or an extra 30 miles per tank.)
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:51 PM   #7
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I think there's a pretty big difference between the heat/stickyness of the band/s when shifting into N after a ~100mph quarter mile run, and at ~45-65mph/~2k rpm. Yes, shifting into N after a quarter mile run may be a bad idea, but doing so during a sedate drive? Not so much imo.
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:09 PM   #8
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i think you guys forgot the different between a spoiler and a wing. huge difference.

also it is definitely better to drive @ 65 with your windows up and a/c on newer cars. a/c systems are more efficient than they used to be. before anyone hears your rebuttal, note how i quantified that.
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All in all, I think you restated most things well, but your hostility towards certain ideas makes me skeptical of your overall thought process.
i agree

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Originally Posted by Fourthbean View Post
Maybe not, but my sub 2 ton car can certainly get 25MPG doing my daily driving. When calculating what it would cost me to get a car with better gas-mileage, going from 25 to 40 would save me 400 dollars A YEAR in gas, that is driving 840 miles a month. 400 a year is certainly not enough to buy a different car as I would probably spend double that getting it up to snuff in repairs. Maybe for other people a different car would make more sense but doesn't work out for me.
yes but you drive a car that has been getting 20mpg and the difference saved between getting a car that gets 40mpg will be closer to a savings of over $650 a year. 40mpg cars are not too hard to come across for less than $2500. also gas will not be costing less than $3 for much longer. its not even available here for less than $2.70
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The consensus I have found is that electric windows are lighter than manual, I cannot find a definitive source on this but it makes sense in my mind.
i would love to see the statistics on that, but before that, i would love to see how it could make sense in your mind.
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spinningmarkviii View Post

Some concerns from the other sticky: (I.E. **** that is just plain bad advice)
1) Spoilers as an aerodynamic mod.....this ADDS weight and ADDS drag. REMOVE spoilers to increase MPG not add them....duh...
Although some spoilers certainly do add drag, some seem to decrease it. The 2002-2003 Saturn SC2 has a much more prominent spoiler than the SC1, yet the SC2 has a Cd of 0.31 compared to the SC1 that has 0.33:
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:48 PM   #10
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6) Free All Toll Roads.....I don't know where you're from, but most toll roads have electronic mechanisms so that you don't have to stop and it gets taken from your account. Further more freeing all toll roads would decrease the incentive not to take the toll roads and would cause congestion. Think this out.
Eh, they probably live in 95% of the USA that still has manual toll road paying.

Besides, the "fast pass" are optional in every instance I've seen them, making manual payment still mandatory for most drivers.

As mentioned by previous posters, cutting down the smugness would help a lot. Constantly telling people to "think this out" only makes you look like you're looking down on everyone else.
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