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Old 12-21-2005, 02:43 PM   #11
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Re: this question came up on a

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Originally Posted by MetroMPG
then someone else suggested that the rack replacement was the way to go.
I'm wondering how much of a pain this would be. I mean, I know I can replace the steering rack. That isn't too difficult. I'm wondering though if I will notice any mpg gains from going to non-power steering. Any thoughts? What type of improvement would anyone expect to see by removing PS? If it yielded 2 mpg I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Old 12-21-2005, 04:23 PM   #12
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The mpg gains are in the

The mpg gains are in the extra free power. You could say the same thing in two ways: "killing power steering means less drag on the engine, freeing up more power" or "killing power steering allows the engine to do less work 100% of the time, resulting in greater mpgs." I think most people just cut the lines to it and leave it in there.
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:27 PM   #13
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Re: this question came up on a

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Originally Posted by Matt Timion
What type of improvement would anyone expect to see by removing PS? If it yielded 2 mpg I'd do it in a heartbeat.
if it were summer i'd go borrow my mom's car (camry) and do a quick scangauge test for you . (the firefly is manual steering.)

alas, it's -15C (5F) and snowing lightly at the moment and i'm not inclined to be outside tinkering on the car.

if i had to guess, i'd say it would be a few percent difference. clearly it's enough of a difference that manufacturers have shifted from "always on" hydraulic power steering pumps, to speed-sensitive variable hydraulic pumps (my 89 accord had this) to electrically driven pumps.

d
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:41 PM   #14
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I just heard from a guy I

I just heard from a guy I know that power steering can soak up 17 hp on average.
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:42 PM   #15
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no wonder they didn't put it

no wonder they didn't put it in my firefly then. the motor only puts out 55 hp

do none of the scangauge-equipped forum users live someplace warm? we need a wintertime test pilot / researcher.
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:53 PM   #16
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Re: no wonder they didn't put it

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no wonder they didn't put it in my firefly then. the motor only puts out 55 hp

do none of the scangauge-equipped forum users live someplace warm? we need a wintertime test pilot / researcher.
There are a few in california that pop in every so often.

I might have to look into swapping steering racks sometime soon. It kind of sucks because one of the reasons I wanted this car was for the power-everything (steering, windows, locks, etc.)

I will not, however, removed my power locks and windows EVER.

EVER.

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Old 12-21-2005, 07:53 PM   #17
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Quote:I will not, however,

Quote:
I will not, however, removed my power locks and windows EVER.
i hear you. had the same in my 89 accord. i liked it - it was nice to be able to open the windows while driving on a hot day.

that said, i don't miss pw/pdl in the firefly ... because i can reach ALL the relevant cranks & locks from the driver's seat without stretching.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:22 PM   #18
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Re: I just heard from a guy I

Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondlarry
I just heard from a guy I know that power steering can soak up 17 hp on average.
That seems really high.Has anyone here removed there power steering ever?
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:32 PM   #19
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it does sound high. a quote

it does sound high. a quote from the "TIGERS" article from the top of this thread:

Quote:
Parasitic losses from mechanical support systems (i.e., belt-driven) can normally be as high as 6kW or 8hp in a family sedan but can be significantly higher in larger capacity cars and trucks.
sounds more realistic. and it's referring to ALL belt driven items - a/c, alternator, water pump - not just p.s.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:15 AM   #20
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If you do decide to remove

If you do decide to remove your power steering pump Matt, I would recommend one of two things - replacing the rack, or installing a lubrication kit.

A few issues back in Honda-Tuning they showed an install of one of these kits. Pretty much, it's a fluid reservoir and some lines to keep power steering fluid around the rack. Granted it isn't being pumped through the rack, but it needn't be, as the pumping action is what gives the power assist. If you're not wanting to change the rack and are interested in this option, I'd be happy to dig though my archives and find the info for you.

If you go the route of replacing the rack, there are a few things. Try to mark the steering column u-joint before unbolting it, or you may spend some time trying to get your steering wheel straight after installing the new rack. You'll need to attempt to get the other rack close to the same position before you install it. You will still probably need to tweak it some. Second thing is to get an alignment immediately after you install the new rack! Other than that, it's easy - unbolt the steering u-joint, drop the exhaust downpipe and shift linkage, pop loose the steering ball joints, remove four bolts, and fish it out from under your car.

I'm assuming you're doing this on your ED3? I'm considering fully rebuilding my non-power steering rack on my ED6 very soon.
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