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Old 07-29-2008, 04:31 AM   #11
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That's the last thing we need is the Gov't getting into the oil business. They have a habit of making anything they do unprofitable. I used to be a civilian employee of the USMC for 10 years. I had worked several positions in the exchange system. I know how they operate, and the people who operate it. Most of the people running the system have never worked outside the Gov't and would never be able to profitably run a business on the outside. The whole system is geared toward politics, not business. I used to piss off some really "important" people because I did not care about the political aspect of my job. When faced with a decision I always erred on the side of what benefited the marines on my base the best, not what was politically advantageous. I think its because of that I was able to keep my job for 10 years without being fired... No matter how political someone was I was always able to end any dispute by asking what would have been a better decision for the troops? They then make all these political decisions and then wonder why the exchange can't compete with Wal-Mart's prices.

Anyway, its people like this that would be running a Gov't oil company. I can guarantee that it would run over budget, and under produce. People who are not used to running a corporation, and have never been in the oil business before will be dictating policy and procedures with no regard as to how these decisions will effect profitability.

It would be cheaper if the Gov't just bought gasoline and gave every licensed driver a gas card with a monthly allotment of "free" gasoline at taxpayer expense.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:57 AM   #12
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That same party was the one which promoted conservation, development of renewable energy, and development of shale oil.
Not conservation...anti-human policies. They cater to organizations that see humans has a pestilence. And what alternative energy have they actually supported rather than just played lip service to? Wind power? No, it kills birds, makes noise and blocks Teddy Kennedy's view of the horizon. Nuke? Heaven forbid. Sugar cane ethanol? Banned. Shale oil? Banned. The only 'alternative energy' policy they have actually acted on is corn based ethanol...a fuel so inefficient to produce and use, it is probably a net loss overall. But it buys the support of the corn lobby.

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The other party's solution is war, spending billions so the first party has to tax more just to pay off the debt the second party's run up.
Would that be Roosevelt's War, Truman's War or Johnson's War? The war cost is a pale shadow compared to the $52 Trillion debt in Social Security and Medicare.

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The only thing that will work is regulation.
Those of us who have been around for a while have lived through the shortages and gas lines that inevitably accompany government controls. It would be nice for youngsters to live through them so they too can learn the limitations of government, but only so long as I don't have to live through them again. I've already learned the lesson.

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Not quite price fixing, but regulation ie breaking up monopolies.
We may have proof of life on other planets. Because informed people on this planet know that the thirteen largest oil companies in the world are governments. Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. ExxonMobil, the largest US oil company, it the 14th largest. Hardly a monopoly. So exactly how does one break up the foreign government owned oil companies? War?

And if as much time was spent understanding the business of America rather than reading Marx's Das Kapital, it would be understood that the US oil sector doesn't make all that high a profit. About 8%. A mediocre performance compared to other industries. This is because they make most of their money from refining and distribution. The big bucks is in drilling. But they have to buy the vast bulk of their crude oil from foreign governments because they can't drill here.

[/QUOTE]The most extreme thing I would support is having a government owned company to compete with the private oil companies.[/QUOTE]

Socialism has been a failure in EVERY country it takes over. The Europeans nationalized companies through the '50s and '60s and spent the '80s and '90s trying to privatize them again. What do they teach in schools nowadays? Oh, yeah. The teach socialism.

LEARN HISTORY!!!

I'm siding with T. Boone Pickens. Make energy. Anything, anywhere as long as it's domestic.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:15 AM   #13
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I'm only 37, but I remember the gas lines as a small child, only being able to purchase gas on certain days. I remember being told as a child that by the time I graduated college there would be no cars, because there would be no gasoline left. What we went through durring the Carter administration is far worse than what we are experiencing now. I remember gas lines and inflation. Who fixed it? Regan. Durring his administration we prospered, and gas was under $1/gallon.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:14 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by lowbridescape View Post

Those of us who have been around for a while have lived through the shortages and gas lines that inevitably accompany government controls. It would be nice for youngsters to live through them so they too can learn the limitations of government, but only so long as I don't have to live through them again. I've already learned the lesson.
As a 37 year old I don't have to go that far back for a good example.

Right after Hurricane Katina, Hawaii installed price controls only to have the oil stop flowing to their great state. Darn those pesky private property rights. It did not take long for the price controls to be removed.

Watching the man made gas shortage in GA (after Karina) was interesting also. The masses started hording gas and drained what was left of the supply. Instead of simply keeping a calm head and consuming fuel as normal. Of course I had just topped of my tank the day before knowing there would be a price hike.

It was strange seeing all the pumps closed till next delivery.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:47 AM   #15
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The oil companies don't set the price, it's not their fault the price is so high. They are subject to world prices just like all other markets. Some of the price hike, IMO, is due to speculation. Traders think the price will continue to go up, so it does.

I read an article a couple weeks ago that Saudi Arabia wants to increase their production by a lot so that the price lowers. They are worried that the high prices will drive alternative fuel research and oil will begin to be phased out and their country will once again live in complete poverty because of their lack of other resources.

Oil companies want to be efficient. The reason a lot of our oil from alaska goes to japan is because it's cheaper to do that than bring it down to the lower 48. If we used that domestic oil here, the price would be even higher. So being all domestic isn't the best solution either.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:33 AM   #16
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The oil companies don't set the price, it's not their fault the price is so high. They are subject to world prices just like all other markets. Some of the price hike, IMO, is due to speculation. Traders think the price will continue to go up, so it does.

I read an article a couple weeks ago that Saudi Arabia wants to increase their production by a lot so that the price lowers. They are worried that the high prices will drive alternative fuel research and oil will begin to be phased out and their country will once again live in complete poverty because of their lack of other resources.

Oil companies want to be efficient. The reason a lot of our oil from alaska goes to japan is because it's cheaper to do that than bring it down to the lower 48. If we used that domestic oil here, the price would be even higher. So being all domestic isn't the best solution either.
You're right. High fuel prices have renewed interest in alternative forms of energy. The Saudis wouuld be wise to increase production so the price comes down, otherwise their customers will find another source of energy that the Saudi's won't be selling. I imagine if the price of solar electricity were to come down they could setup huge solar electric generating plants in the desert and sell bulk electricity to Europe and Asia. As much as OPEC wants to stick it to us, they don't want to drive us away from them either.

-Jay
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:38 PM   #17
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I believe that fuel product pricing should be based on the price of crude oil when it was purchased, refined and delivered. Not changed daily as current crude oil prices escalate!
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:51 PM   #18
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you do realize that it goes both ways though. even though it doesn't seem that way right now.

when the prices go down, there is the same instantaneous affect.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:18 PM   #19
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...the oil companies are making a killing.
7% profit is a killing???

should we then CRUCIFY manufacturers of soda, beer, pharm drugs, candy, toys, etc whose profit margins exceed 7%?

at least most of us NEED fuel. most of us do NOT need these products.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by bowtieguy View Post
7% profit is a killing???

should we then CRUCIFY manufacturers of soda, beer, pharm drugs, candy, toys, etc whose profit margins exceed 7%?

at least most of us NEED fuel. most of us do NOT need these products.
Usually in business you like to see at least 20% profit. 7% is nothing.

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