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Old 07-29-2008, 05:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue View Post
You're right. High fuel prices have renewed interest in alternative forms of energy. The Saudis wouuld be wise to increase production so the price comes down, otherwise their customers will find another source of energy that the Saudi's won't be selling. I imagine if the price of solar electricity were to come down they could setup huge solar electric generating plants in the desert and sell bulk electricity to Europe and Asia. As much as OPEC wants to stick it to us, they don't want to drive us away from them either.
-Jay
Umm...Just a few miles (<10) from my home, it's already happening. Maybe not to Europe and Asia, but at least to L.A.

http://www.esolar.com/news/press/2008_06_03
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by REBECCA View Post
I believe that fuel product pricing should be based on the price of crude oil when it was purchased, refined and delivered. Not changed daily as current crude oil prices escalate!
But if the price of oil were to drop, I'll wager you'd want to see the price at the gas station go down immediately...
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:50 PM   #23
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There's not much point in sending tea bags if you're going to vote the rascals back into office. Only one political party has pursued a 30 year policy of national energy suicide. I'll let y'all figure out which one. If you vote for them, they'll drink the tea, tax you for more, and keep right on stonewalling any domestic energy development. The choice is yours.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:24 PM   #24
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The truth is that there is plenty of supply!!! The oil companies have oil fields tapped and ready to go in Alaska, Hawaii, and elsewhere. They have the required permits and permission. And yet they don't draw out the oil. Instead they try to secure even more oil. Oil companies don't control prices?! So you're saying that if one oil company lowered their prices, the others wouldn't follow suit? They'd just let that one company rail their ***?

So you think there's no cause-and-effect with all the oil companies merging back to what they were before the government broke up the monopolies ie standard oil? They all merge and then gas prices go crazy. Hmm... deregulation is great!!

Just because the government sucks doesn't mean they have to suck and that they always will suck. There's no reason why we can't push them to do something and do it right. So enough of that fatalism. I found the Walmart mention hilarious. Walmart keeps their prices cheap by having a BS health care plan, low low wages, and poor working conditions. When you shop at Walmart you just dig us in a deeper hole. Good companies lose your business, cut their workers hours or lay them off. Then they all go to Walmart for lower pay, no benefits, end up on public assistance which you either pay for in taxes, or you will pay for in lack of social security.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:20 PM   #25
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LEARN HISTORY!!!
Good advice. You should take it.

Your omission of facts and details to spin it is ridiculous.

Obviously you missed the part about every Republican administration since Reagan stealing from the Social Security fund to bankroll tax cuts for the rich. Do you want to make any guesses about when the problems with the Social Security fund started??

And apparently you missed the part about investing in alternative energies implemented by the Carter administration only to be immediately abandoned by Reagan - while simultaneously giving oil companies even more advantages and opportunities to corner the market.

I can only imagine your disappointment as Bush is leaving office!

This wasn't a political bashing thread, but that's no big deal, however if you want to lie by omission of facts or out of ignorance, I'm going to call you on it.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:32 AM   #26
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[QUOTE=lowbridescape;112959]Not conservation...anti-human policies. They cater to organizations that see humans has a pestilence. And what alternative energy have they actually supported rather than just played lip service to? Wind power? No, it kills birds, makes noise and blocks Teddy Kennedy's view of the horizon. Nuke? Heaven forbid. Sugar cane ethanol? Banned. Shale oil? Banned. The only 'alternative energy' policy they have actually acted on is corn based ethanol...a fuel so inefficient to produce and use, it is probably a net loss overall. But it buys the support of the corn lobby.


wind power is exploding- the firms that produce turbines are maxed out. the bird killing issue is real and being worked on, environmentalists are very much in favor of wind power:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

sugar cane ethanol is not banned. sugar cane simply does not grow well here.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/06/news...anol/index.htm

shale oil production is ramping up domestically:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_n24190073

corn based ethanol sucks, that much is true (that stupid iowa primary gets that state lts of money. (Hardly a "Liberal" conspiracy). But otherwise you are grossly misinformed and attempting to misinform others.

The reason we do not see offshore oil drilling is that rich Republicans with Bush senor and Jeb Bush's help blocked it in the gulf, and Rich and powerful Democrats block it in Southern California. hardly a Liberal Conspiracy. The Republicans had the votes to lift the ban untill the 2004 midterms. Why didn't they? Politics. And politics is not as simple as blaming everything on the evil environmentalists.

"The issue also makes for a fascinating family drama since the president's father, President George H.W. Bush, signed the order banning offshore drilling, while his brother Jeb more recently opposed such drilling when he was governor of Florida.

Florida's current governor, Charlie Crist, has been an opponent of offshore drilling, but he now has an open mind about it since McCain's embrace. Crist's name has come up as a possible vice presidential running mate on the GOP ticket. "

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/...mccain.energy/
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:35 AM   #27
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If you want more production tell the environmentalists to allow the companies to drill in certain "environmentally sensitive" areas. Proven oil reserves are important to have because they are, well, reserves. If the reserves get low and we think the oil might run out soon, shooting up like a rocket goes the oil/gas price. Liberals are usually those who prevent us from going into these places. Currently the US uses something like 1.8 million barrels of oil per day, but only produces something like 1.5 million. So we couldn't be self-sufficient even if we wanted to with the level of production we have now.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:45 AM   #28
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wind power is ok. Unfortunately, because wind is very variable, they are not reliable for power at all times and backup generators must be going near capacity anyways.

ethanol will likely never catch on like it was intended as long as it is a net loss energy producer (which it is). Production of ethanol in the US, which is mostly by corn, puts a stress on not only our food supply but water as well. Corn is a very thirsty plant, and the irrigation it needs in most areas sucks up aquifer water.

oil shale is much like ethanol. We still need to find ways to make it more efficient.

IMO, hydro and solar power are the best, with nuclear right behind. but those don't help with petroleum fuels for vehicles, obviously.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #29
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wind power is ok. Unfortunately, because wind is very variable, they are not reliable for power at all times and backup generators must be going near capacity anyways.
From what I've seen, there are many places where the wind blows steadily enough for wind to be VERY productive. I see the turbines in Tehachapi running most every day. (OK, there are a few days they don't run, but for the most part they do.) In fact, So. Cal. Edison is upgrading the power lines running from Tehachapi to L. A. County, because there is already more generating capacity available even with the 25-30 year old turbines than there is powerline capacity. Not to mention when all those vintage turbines are upgraded from the old 50kW shrimps to modern 1.5 MW units...

Then there is the midwest (especially corn country), and west Texas...with enough wind turbines, you will have pretty steady power because there is always SOMEWHERE where profitable winds are blowing...

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ethanol will likely never catch on like it was intended as long as it is a net loss energy producer (which it is). Production of ethanol in the US, which is mostly by corn, puts a stress on not only our food supply but water as well. Corn is a very thirsty plant, and the irrigation it needs in most areas sucks up aquifer water.

oil shale is much like ethanol. We still need to find ways to make it more efficient.

IMO, hydro and solar power are the best, with nuclear right behind. but those don't help with petroleum fuels for vehicles, obviously.
With nuclear you have that pesky problem of what to do with the waste and old, worn out nuclear reactors.
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:32 AM   #30
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I always thought the hydrogen cell was the coolest idea. You set up solar/wind hydrogen stations across the US (the sun isn't going to burn out for a while) to produce hydrogen where it can safely be stored in cells. Then, when your car is running low, you pull up, exchange cells, and drive away. The infrastructure and safety issues are the biggest hurdles to overcome, but once you do, you have a clean, renewable source of energy to drive vehicles that would last much longer than anything we drive now. These same cells could be used to power your home as well, enabling you to be off the grid, so to speak. Pipe dreams I guess.

And quit all the political bashing. Both parties are full of self serving douche bags with a few exeptions for each.
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