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Old 08-05-2008, 11:35 AM   #51
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I'm not saying drink out of clay bowls, but how many times have we had a bottle of water, thrown it away when were done and opened another one. Could we refill that bottle and put it in the fridge and take another rifilled one out? Your saving the bottle and a buck and a half on something you can get out of your tap. I'm saying we need to use less of everything, be smarter about how we use things and spend our hard earned dollars. If you don't grow your own vegetables but them fom a farmers market when you can, not ones that have been shipped across the country. These are examples and I realize not always possible. I realize we need oil in the winter for heat etc. but if we were smarter about how we use oil and all of our rescources maybe we wouldn't be in a jam right now.
Oh I definitely agree. There are always ways to be more efficient.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:37 AM   #52
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in addition to drilling for oil and ACTIVELY developing alternative fuels, the US gov't MUST tighten its budget in order to, God forbid, maintain present tax cuts as well as lower taxes in many areas.

this is how to stimulate an economy!
I agree again. It's crazy how wasteful government is, and misappropration of funds is a large part of it.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:03 PM   #53
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Drilling for more oil to solve the problem is like giving a cocaine addict more cocaine to help with his problem. We need to be more energy efficient. We need to buy locally when we can. Our dependence on oil no matter where it comes from is our problem.
Yes, I totally agree. its just silly that people want cheaper gas, so they can drive a 5000 lb vehicle to work by themselves and afford it. If I adjust for inflation, I bet I pay less today that I did with my first car back in the early 80's. Its because it was a gas hog. About 12 mpg. Now I'm averaging 35. $28 to fill up back then, and 45 now.I feel somewhat guilty because I have a Si, and not a VX...
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:53 PM   #54
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$3.579 a gallon here today.

I am on the fence on the solutions.

The problem with drilling for more is it will encourage waste, by making prices lower.

The other side of that coin is we keep the money in circulation in the US and out of the hands of enemies. Either one by itself stands alone as a huge benefit.

I say drill, because it may just happen that in the future it will not be worth anything near what it is worth today.

At the same time I say promote research into real alternatives, both short term and long term. We have spent 20 billion on fuel cell research and we are still chasing that ideal like Mel Gibson on the horse with the bucket of water.

I say make them use smaller engines by taxing them like the Japanese. Anything over 2 liters and you start paying out the Kazoo. And don't tell gayle banks a 2 liter engine cant pull diddily.

I say make aero and fuel mileage a requirement, with specific yearly parameters. Super high economy designs should be given some leeway on emissions (not much) in order for technology to refine a design without its efficiency being abandoned prematurely.

I say it's about damn time we actually had some car people involved in this process. You know people who actually like cars, and buy their own gas as well as drive themselves around in something besides the largest vehicle owned by any individual on the planet.

I say focus significant funding on carbon free sources of energy, and especially battery development, as well as hydraulic hybrid powertrains.

Hydro, solar, wind, tides, are all forms of solar and lunar power recovery. I am not against nuclear (live 15 miles form a plant), but I like the fusion reactor thats 93 million miles away that recycles its own waste, at least for a few billion more years, we hope.

I say unlock the ingenuity of the little people. Having been one for many years, I know how hard it is to promote new ideas. This should be accomplished much more efficiently that it is today. Like a permanent American Inventor contest with real monetary prizes, in every field of energy efficient transportation.

I say look at everything without committing to any predetermined pathway to the final vehicle we might drive in 50 years. Too many people are committed to specific pathways to the exclusion of other pathways that may be better in the near term. Fix it quickly, Fix it right damn now, and then use that fix as the yardstick to measure further improvements, refinements, and dramatic changes, while focusing on the real goals which are economy and minimal environmental impact, in that order of priority.

regards
gary
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:31 AM   #55
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$3.579 a gallon here today.

The problem with drilling for more is it will encourage waste, by making prices lower.

The other side of that coin is we keep the money in circulation in the US and out of the hands of enemies. Either one by itself stands alone as a huge benefit.

I say drill, because it may just happen that in the future it will not be worth anything near what it is worth today.

gary
Gary, I agree that we should drill now. And increase taxes on gas to discourage consumption and promote conservation - like the Europeans do ...to bad voters will not support it. If the Congress was to approve drilling today, by the time the new supply comes online, it will be 2013-2015 - there is 5-10 years lag time when developing new deposits. At that time will NEED that oil to make up for decline in imports and domestic production ... although, we might need that oil even more in 2025 if production keeps dropping .

And wind, solar, coal, tidal, nuclear, etc - the answer should be all of the above. No energy - no food.

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Old 08-07-2008, 09:34 PM   #56
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Were gas to go to $10/gal from $4/gal, it would cost me $150 more per month. Big whoop.
For some of us, that $150 is pretty dang significant...
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:20 AM   #57
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The reality is that most people still drive far more and in larger less efficient vehicles for no other reason than because they can afford it. Unfortunately the demand of those who can afford it will always continue to affect supply and pricing in ways that squeeze those with lower incomes. Drilling for more oil will not solve that. We absolutely cannot produce enough oil to catch up with demand - and never will without drastic changes in how much oil we use.

The effect of higher oil prices no doubt trickles down to raise prices on all consumeable goods, but investing the same money in alternatives that would otherwise be invested in drilling can provide far greater energy returns in the long run. The problem is that the oil companies don't have a lock on solar, wind, and hydro generation, so compared to the profit margins of oil, they have no real interest in it and their investment history strongly supports that, with BP being the only oil company that appears to be hedging their bets with photovoltaic production. Hence, they continue to cajole money minded politicians into the 'Drill here! Drill Now!' philosophy. Yet where are the higher fuel economy standards that would truly mitigate this problem to a far greater degree? (The most recent legislation didn't go nearly far enough to impact demand.) Where are the incentives for passive solar design in building construction? (Cutting heating and air conditioning energy consumption in half would be a good start wouldn't it?) Where are the incentives for solar water heating systems? (An order of magnitude more efficient than photovoltaics and a fraction of the cost.)

The fact is: Any politician who talks about more drilling without talking about providing real backing to alternative conservation strategies is simply blowing smoke up our asses for the now not-so-mighty dollar. We do not NEED more energy if we make more efficient use of the energy we already have.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:37 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
In 1974 Nixon imposed price controls. Within a week we had shortages and gas lines.

That old supply and demand thing.

We have learned something from that...I hope.
That was a "nightmere".........I don't like the gas prices any more than anyone elce but I don't want to see that happen again.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:56 AM   #59
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7% profit is a killing???

should we then CRUCIFY manufacturers of soda, beer, pharm drugs, candy, toys, etc whose profit margins exceed 7%?

at least most of us NEED fuel. most of us do NOT need these products.
Exactly, the ONLY reason they are making record profits, is because WE are buying record amounts of gasoline. Ditch the gas hogs, and they would be hurting...
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:49 PM   #60
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In 1974 Nixon imposed price controls. Within a week we had shortages and gas lines.

That old supply and demand thing.

We have learned something from that...I hope.

Actually, it was in 1971 that Nixon imposed price (and wage) controls. It was on everything, not just gasoline. It was an attempt to dampen inflation, which was running at an incredible 4%. It had peaked at an astounding 6% the previous year.

The gasoline shortages and gas lines in '74 were due to the Arab oil embargo, brought on by Israel's victory in the Yom Kippur war of October, 1973. The Arab (not Iran) countries brought the embargo against the U.S. due to our support of Israel.

I don't think we've learned anything...
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