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Old 06-07-2007, 08:04 PM   #11
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All I hear in the FUD is
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"blah, blah, blah be afraid, blah, blah, don't make us inovate what the rest of the world can do: its too hard, blah, blah, blah, be afraid, government is out to get you, blah blah"
If they made a measly 2.63% annual increase in FE, over the next 13 years, they'd raise the current requirement from 25 mpg to 35 mpg. It's an insult to Americans everywhere to say this can't be done in a cost-effective way. I just don't buy it! These are the same guys who said the car industry would be ruined by safety standards in the late '60s and by emissions standards in the mid '70s. It's the same malingering rhetoric.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:14 PM   #12
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The profit margins are simply larger on the larger vehicles like pickups and SUVs. I know that the difference between the profit margin on a Ford Focus vs. a decked out F150 is about 6 to 1. If you owned allot of Ford stock, which would you rather they sell? Economy cars don't rake in the bucks. It's that simple.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:47 PM   #13
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Yeah it's obvious that a bare-bones pickup truck will have lower margins than an Extrusion with every bell, whistle and blue-sky option you can imagine. My question is why would a fully-loaded truck have a higher margin than a fully-loaded large sedan?
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:56 PM   #14
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It kills me that Toyota is throwing there hat in this ring, if anyone could meet this easily it has to be Honda first, then Toyota. I agree with the comments about this being similar to the emmisions regs of the past. The initial steps to meet them were pretty ugly, but it only took a few years till the cars were light years ahead of where they had been.
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:01 PM   #15
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Honda and Toyota are making a killing off of the implied inefficiency through design motto of domestic auto makers. If the feds force GM et all to be competitive, that means less business for the others.
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I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:26 PM   #16
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Honda and Toyota are making a killing off of the implied inefficiency through design motto of domestic auto makers. If the feds force GM et all to be competitive, that means less business for the others.
Thanks, I think you nailed it and I feel a little better. On a somewhat related note, I know Toyota was losing money on every Prius when they released them. It seems like they must have found enough economies of scale that it's profitable now, hence the rebates on them trying to push the sales way up. My wife is starting to think she wants to trade her xb on one now.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:45 AM   #17
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What is almost negligent and frightening is the SUV drivers statements that they wanted the safest "car" possible. It sure is not the big *** SUV that you are driving.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq View Post
Honda and Toyota are making a killing off of the implied inefficiency through design motto of domestic auto makers. If the feds force GM et all to be competitive, that means less business for the others.
its sad but very true! they have to stay competive and i think they should go the oppisite route
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:25 AM   #19
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My “conspiracy theory” on the whole size issue is that Japanese carmakers almost obliterated the Big 3 in the 70’s with cars like the Corolla and the Civic. They got better gas mileage, and they were more reliable. So the Big 3 tried to improve quality and mileage But when they discovered how far behind they were, they just decided to make things bigger. The psychological effect is to intimidate people into getting a bigger vehicle, and sacrifice mileage and reliability.

As an example, I know several people who traded in their Kia, Civic, or Saturn for an urban assault vehicle after several close calls with oversized SUVs.

A few events happened that also changed perceptions. America became a superpower after WWII. We prevailed in WWII because of our size and sheer numbers. I realize this is very US-centric, but it has a lot to do with how the Big 3 think.

Then there was Gulf War 1. Young men have always looked at gas guzzlers as the symbol of success. After Gulf War 1, he Hummer replaced the Ferrari and Lamborghini as the car young men lusted after.

SUVs morphed from utilitarian vehicles (hunting, fishing, pulling the camper) to having all the bells and whistles. Now they have navigation, THX surround sound theater, heated leather seats, and lots of room for Americans’ ever-expanding butts.

9/11. The economy stopped. 0% financing became the norm. People bought more SUVs.

Finally, are bigger vehicles really necessary? Not counting Utah, what’s all this I hear about declining birth rates?

I'm sure I've missed something, and I'm sure there are equally valid and totally opposite opinions. These are mine.

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
The profit margins are simply larger on the larger vehicles like pickups and SUVs. I know that the difference between the profit margin on a Ford Focus vs. a decked out F150 is about 6 to 1. If you owned allot of Ford stock, which would you rather they sell? Economy cars don't rake in the bucks. It's that simple.
Of course they mike more $$$ selling 40-50 year old technology at a premeium price. No wonder Toyota is kicking the US cars ***...
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