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Old 06-08-2007, 07:31 PM   #21
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I can't believe they would even try this. I've noticed U.S. automakers keep pushing for alternative fuels, instead of improving the current technology that's available. The hydrogen car was decases away in the 70's, now it's decades away. Does anyone see where this is going?
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:34 PM   #22
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The hybrid car is a silly, waste of time. I think it's fair to explore it but I don't think it should be the direction we are traveling in...let it stay decades away and let's throw money at EVs.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:33 PM   #23
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I disagree about the hybrids being a waste of time. They aren't the ultimate solution, but I think they make a strong case to the consumer that EV style propulsion is workable. It's going to take time to create the market acceptance that will sell enough EVs to make it worth it for them - so long as collusion with the oil companies can be sidelined that is.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:23 AM   #24
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Has anyone seen who killed the electric car? It's a pretty good movie. Consumers in California wanted to buy thier EV cars from GM that were leased, but were forced to retrun the vehicles. The vehicles were then taken to various junk yards, to be crushed and shredded. The EV that GM had was a plug in that had a range of about 100 miles. Which is more than enough for the average driver.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:33 AM   #25
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There are two propaganda wars raging right now:

Global warming is accelerating and action is needed now! - Just read an article that claims an old US research station in Antarctica is deteriorating because the wood timbers are rotting from melting ice.

The peak of global oil production was surpassed in 2005 so the price of crude will skyrocket as there will be inadequate supply to meet growing demand - especially from China and India. $3 gas will seem like a bargain ten years from now.

Are both true? false? Who knows!

What really amazes me "DO YOU BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS REALLY HAPPENING" The key word here is BELIEVE. That is tantamount to asking do you believe in God! And, both sides of the argument are equally passionate about it. You'd think they were debating abortion or something.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:46 AM   #26
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The thing about peak oil is that everybody who tries to put a date on it is working with 'proven reserves', i.e., oil fields that have actually been drilled to confirm viability. Unproven reserves however are huge. We just don't know for certain how easily or how much we can get from them.

Just keep in mind that it is in the interest of OPEC and the oil companies to propagate the idea of limited supply. Without it and the ability to control market supply, prices plummet. Iraq was most certainly not invaded because of Al queada collusion, but rather because Saddam Hussein was a cocky dictator who enjoyed thumbing his nose at OPEC and manipulating supply outside of Iraq's OPEC allotment of production.

I've said it elsewhere on this board: It's a rigged game.

The only thing we can do about it is to reduce our individual dependance on the stuff.
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:38 AM   #27
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Snax: I think you've hit it. It is a rigged game. And I do think it's in the interests of OPEC to propogate the scacity issue...up to a point. Too much and the world will be (and is) in a jstate of political unrest and instability. This will greatly inspire the adoption of alternatives that displace oil use wherever possible.

The problem with predicting peak oil is there we're looking at the rate at which we keep finding new reserves. Just when we think we've looked everywhere, a old method appears economically possible, like oil sands.

The downward trending supply projection curve will cross the upward trending world demand curve. I think it's a virtual guarantee that the oil producers will have us believe this will not occur for a long time. When we've finally figured out that they were lying, they will have already bought up all patent and feedstock rights for the alternative sources...with one exception: conservation.
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:42 AM   #28
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I meant to say hydrogen, I swear! They're the waste!
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:46 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy View Post
I meant to say hydrogen, I swear! They're the waste!
Ah...I'm with you 200%!
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Ah...I'm with you 200%!
I watched a show on Discovery once, it was just called Cars, and it explored the history of cars, future, and prototypes. They showed some hydrogen cars in Japan that were wicked fast. I thought hydrogen cars would be slow and inefficient but the one I remember did 0-100 in about 4 seconds I think.

I dont see how they could refine and distribute hyrdogen that well here in the States, but they don't do a good job with gas either anyways.
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