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Old 10-27-2011, 12:57 PM   #31
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Re: Best Oil question

As applicable to oil, Toyota's sludge would be more relevant than the "stuck" throttle.

Yup, engineers do make mistakes, but they've got the resources to make a better guess...I do not.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:25 PM   #32
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Re: Best Oil question

Obviously there is some leeway to the manufacturer recommendations, I meant to point that out. One can adjust a bit for weather or driving conditions, the manufacturer recommendations are going to represent what they feel is a balanced lubricant that will satisfy most people's needs under most conditions. One should be using something near the recommendations, and should make every attempt to educate themselves as much as they can about their options and needs.

Also, just so I can add a little something to this thread other than math. I run full synthetic 5w20 in 2 Ford explorers with over 200k on their engines, in a climate that sees up to 110 in the summer and -30 in the winter.

I have had three 3800s die from that horrid manifold design also.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:38 PM   #33
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Re: Best Oil question

Your Honda was made in an era where 5w30 was usually the factory recommended weight. Brand is pretty much up to the owner. Even though my '88 Escort's recommended oil weight is 5w30 I've used conventional 10w40 of various brands in it most of it's life and it's currently at 518K miles on the original engine and never been rebuilt. Even store brand oils such as oil from Auto Zone, Advance, Walmart, etc have been used in it. Those oils are made by a major oil company and the company just sells the store the right to put their name on the bottle. I've heard that Walmart's Super Tech is Havoline in a different bottle and I had someone that worked at Advance Auto Parts tell me several years ago that at that time their store brand was Valvoline packaged with the Advance name on the bottle. If you do use conventional oil I'd suggest changing it at least every 5K miles. I have 7 cars and a motorcycle that I maintain with all the cars except 1 being in access of 100K miles, a couple of them near 200K one with over 500K and have never used anything other than conventional oil and use 10w40 in all of them.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:33 PM   #34
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Re: Best Oil question

since i haven't bought motor oil in a while, i haven't priced it lately either...WOW!!!...the prices.

anyway, i swung by my local discount chain to pick up a quart or two, when i got "sticker shock." the price of conventional is insane...no way i'm going w/ anything but synthetic now and forever more!
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:35 PM   #35
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Re: Best Oil question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Man View Post
Your Honda was made in an era where 5w30 was usually the factory recommended weight. Brand is pretty much up to the owner. Even though my '88 Escort's recommended oil weight is 5w30 I've used conventional 10w40 of various brands in it most of it's life and it's currently at 518K miles on the original engine and never been rebuilt. Even store brand oils such as oil from Auto Zone, Advance, Walmart, etc have been used in it. Those oils are made by a major oil company and the company just sells the store the right to put their name on the bottle. I've heard that Walmart's Super Tech is Havoline in a different bottle and I had someone that worked at Advance Auto Parts tell me several years ago that at that time their store brand was Valvoline packaged with the Advance name on the bottle. If you do use conventional oil I'd suggest changing it at least every 5K miles. I have 7 cars and a motorcycle that I maintain with all the cars except 1 being in access of 100K miles, a couple of them near 200K one with over 500K and have never used anything other than conventional oil and use 10w40 in all of them.
Thanks for the answer! Very, very informative! I think I'm going to go with conventional oil too.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:35 PM   #36
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Re: Best Oil question

To FIND, it was an article in Plane and Pilot or Flying magazine in 2001.

The FAA wont let you just put octain booster or oil additives in a plane. Since rebuilds on aircraf engines can be in the tens of thousands of dollars, pilots started using additives to lengthen the life of thier engines. People started switching to full synthetics.

So the FAA in 98 did a test. They tested every oil, natural and synthetic. They found that pure synthetic did not wash carbon out of the rings. It would get behind the rings and increase ring pressure and increase friction and wear out the rings faster.

The good thing is, synthetics have better lubricity when cold. So the FAA started experimenting and found that an engine needs regular oil to wash out the rings. They also found that when an engine is hot and shut off, the synthetic oil slips off main bearing surfaces.

The FAA made the recomendation to mix 45% regular multi grade, 45% synthetic oil and 10% 30 weight to sit on the bearings when the engine is hot.

Hot Rod did a test with an engine used at a drag strip and found that 20/50 provided the least horse power loss, verses bearing wear and piston ring wear.

I dont know about you, but it seems that engines dont last long anymore. The Dodge Dart could hit 400k, I had two Toyota's that went 400K and 600k and when I sold them, they didn't burn oil.

They are building engines that dont last long anymore, so they can sell you new cars.

I know this, with my Ford Focus. The old Ford Escort lasted longer. My Focus is falling apart mechanically and physically.

In order to stretch my Focus as long as I can, I want the most durable oil in it.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:04 AM   #37
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Re: Best Oil question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
I dont know about you, but it seems that engines dont last long anymore. The Dodge Dart could hit 400k, I had two Toyota's that went 400K and 600k and when I sold them, they didn't burn oil.
Whose engine isn't lasting?

Every engine failure I hear of is from a failed head gasket that gets coolant into the oil. Junkyards are full of vehicles with substantially good engines, with transmission failures, electric gremlins, engine control system failures, minor failures that somebody just didn't want to fix, etc...cylinders, rings, and bearings go to the junkyard in fine condition if they weren't exposed to coolant.

My 2002 GM 5.3 hit 201,000 miles today and purrs like new (except a little harmless piston slap on cold starts, which goes away after a few seconds).

Edit: Oh, your Focus. I have no idea what the deal is there, but it seems random; as I said in the other thread, others I know with Foci have not had a problem like that.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:59 AM   #38
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Re: Best Oil question

I've only encountered one instance of an engine not lasting, and that is in my 81 Buick. The previous owner (my sister) neglected to check the oil in her cars until the oil pressure light came on. Even though the car only had 88,000 miles on it when I bought it from her, the damage was done. I only got a few thousand miles out of it before the oil pressure light stayed on all the time. Being a poor college student in the early 90's, I just dumped a bottle of Slick 50 in it, and drove it with the oil pressure light on for 2 or 3 years until I had the funds to replace the motor.

I contend that any engine, if well maintained will yield a long life. My old 74 Chevy C-10 had well over 300,000 miles on it when I sold it, and it was one of the best running vehicles I ever had. My 80 Bonneville wagon had over 180,000 miles on it, and I continued to get a consistent 16 MPG out of it with no oil burning. My 98 GMC K1500 has 180,000 miles on it, burns no oil, and it idles so smooth and quiet you can't hear it running from 10 feet away. My family had numerous K-cars in the 80's and 90's that clocked over 200,000 miles. One was sold to a family friend that eventually put about 400,000 miles on it before he got drunk and wrecked it one night.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:07 AM   #39
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Re: Best Oil question

Plane and race car engines operate under parameters a daily driver may never see in their life. The differences in fuel may require a different lube. That's a possibility with running 100% biodiesel over petro.

The numbers on the bottle are just a labeling system that has no direct bearing on the actual viscosity. 5w30 motor oil and, IIRC, 75w120 gear oil are the same viscosity. Only the additives are different, so they put different numbers on the label to avoid a mix up.

The system allows a range of viscosities for each label. The German 5w30 Castrol Syntec is almost a 5w40 for example. Because of this, I don't give much thought to using a 20 in a 30 engine.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:26 PM   #40
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Re: Best Oil question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Hot Rod did a test with an engine used at a drag strip and found that 20/50 provided the least horse power loss, verses bearing wear and piston ring wear.
But, what I was trying to tell you is that that would only apply to certain engines under certain circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
I dont know about you, but it seems that engines dont last long anymore. The Dodge Dart could hit 400k, I had two Toyota's that went 400K and 600k and when I sold them, they didn't burn oil.

They are building engines that dont last long anymore, so they can sell you new cars.

I know this, with my Ford Focus. The old Ford Escort lasted longer. My Focus is falling apart mechanically and physically.

In order to stretch my Focus as long as I can, I want the most durable oil in it.
Part of the problem here is that they are squeezing more power out of engines. This puts more stress on internal parts which are made smaller and smaller so we can make that extra power. Plus, these clearances are getting smaller, so the extra power adds stress, but that is how we get the power and fuel economy out of them. On top of that, aluminum is the of choice instead of iron, so it expands and contracts more under heat and while more malleable is not as strong.

The price we pay for power and fuel efficiency.

Plus, people are just less willing to fix things these days because they cost more to fix, and we buy disposable cars. I buy cars for a pittance all the time with minor issues, fix them, and then have a great car. My old continental, $500. Threw a transmission in it and had a $6000 car that ran great.... until it ended up underwater because of the flooding I had here... I can go to the pick and pull any day of the week and see cars that are getting torn apart because they have some minor issue like a bad head gasket or a cracked head. I betcha if your Dart had a leaky head gasket, you would change it out and be driving again that afternoon. Not as many people willing to do that these days, and the ones that are, get scared away by all the extra "stuff" that is crammed in there.

Then again, all things being equal, these modern engines should last plenty long, just people don't take care of them right. Plus, they've got more parts to go wrong, so sometimes issues get multiplied or aggravated.
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