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Old 06-09-2007, 07:03 PM   #21
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It's been 40 years, for goodness sakes. If the car companies were run by real Americans, they would get tired of getting their rears kicked, and would do something about it. To me, making the same old junk and expecting people to buy it is more like something we would expect to see in the old Soviet Union.
what do you mean 40 years? lol so all the classic muscle cars and our pickups are junk? how do you figure that? to me they started slipping in the late 80's and 90's when gas prices started to climb higher and higher. so more and more people bought econo boxes. but the US car companies never really tried making a fuel efficent car or truck. (theyve gotten used to making fast HP big mean machines because well america is HUGE comapred to japan. we have space to let all 400 horses run wild...

honda and japanese cars alike were designed in asia wich has very little space with a crap load of people so they figured a huge 400 HP v8 full size car would not be practical nor affordable to the common person. so they designed small very efficent cars so the common man could afford one and havent stopped since...

but to say everything the US car manufactures put out over the last 50 years is junk? thats just wrong...
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:34 PM   #22
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I think your assertation that all cars are equal when equally maintained is wrong.

I would also tell you that I see many old Japanese cars around, look at matt's n600.

I will also assert that 27 years ago, not as many japanese cars were sold, so naturally less will still be on the road.

Finally, I will say that japanese cars are not all the same, just as japanese people aren't. It often happens when people encounter unfamiliar races, that ignorance makes everyone seem the same. However, a careful look from the inside will show otherwise.

I don't feel like arguing about the difference in manufacturing quality of cars though...I think the fact that toyota has replaced GM as #1 manufacturer says a lot in itself.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #23
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can you elaborate on why you think not all cars are equal when equally maintained?

i know that all japaneese cars/people arent the same, its just usually the ones i see are silver 4 door triangular headlights triangular tailights with one side body line down the side... theres nohting really distinguishing it... and inside to me they look just about the same...maybe one has a few more chrome trim pieces...(im accualy pretty bored with the blah designs by all car manufacturers right now, theres nothing too special about any certian one, 2008 looks like its going to be a big change year tho) whatever happened to fancy chrome and such? nowadays cars are all one color (no fancy 2 tones etc) and the typical cheapo silver 5 spoke plastic hubcaps.

lol my dad is annoyed cuz they did away with the rectangular and round sealed beam headlights. i must say i liked them too. didnt have to worry about them turning yellow cuz of the sun, a rock going thru it doesnt mean a new $100+ headlight housing, it ment a $9 bulb same with in an accident...

just because toyota has made it to the top doesnt mean their quality is far superior. toyota makes more fuel efficent cars, have you noticed the current gas prices? most people want to save money and could give a crap less about what kind it is cuz thier just gonna trade it in in 3 years...
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:37 PM   #24
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can you elaborate on why you think not all cars are equal when equally maintained?

You can't honestly think all cars will make it the same distance with the same amount of repairs, regardless of design. Perhaps if you replace the engines and certain cars over and over, the car will last just as long, but with equivalent maintenance, I think not. If that were the case, consumer reports would not be finding such a large difference between manufacturers in build quality. It's ridiculous to think maintaining a car properly will avoid eventual damage from thin cylinder wars, poorly manufactured bearing, and crappy wiring.

i know that all japaneese cars/people arent the same, its just usually the ones i see are silver 4 door triangular headlights triangular tailights with one side body line down the side... theres nohting really distinguishing it... and inside to me they look just about the same...maybe one has a few more chrome trim pieces...(im accualy pretty bored with the blah designs by all car manufacturers right now, theres nothing too special about any certian one, 2008 looks like its going to be a big change year tho) whatever happened to fancy chrome and such? nowadays cars are all one color (no fancy 2 tones etc) and the typical cheapo silver 5 spoke plastic hubcaps.

It's not toyota's fault that everyone buys the camry, perhaps your beef is with the purchasers

lol my dad is annoyed cuz they did away with the rectangular and round sealed beam headlights. i must say i liked them too. didnt have to worry about them turning yellow cuz of the sun, a rock going thru it doesnt mean a new $100+ headlight housing, it ment a $9 bulb same with in an accident...

just because toyota has made it to the top doesnt mean their quality is far superior. toyota makes more fuel efficent cars, have you noticed the current gas prices? most people want to save money and could give a crap less about what kind it is cuz thier just gonna trade it in in 3 years...

The gas prices of the last year or so did not lead cause the 20 year slip of GM from the top. Have you noticed how much SUVs are on the road? Most people have enough money not to give a crap about what gas mileage they get. If toyota's were breaking down left and right, no one would buy them. Quality (at least percieved quality) is very important to most buyers...who would buy a piece of crap if they could avoid it?
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:08 AM   #25
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what do you mean 40 years? lol so all the classic muscle cars and our pickups are junk? how do you figure that? to me they started slipping in the late 80's and 90's when gas prices started to climb higher and higher. so more and more people bought econo boxes. but the US car companies never really tried making a fuel efficent car or truck. (theyve gotten used to making fast HP big mean machines because well america is HUGE comapred to japan. we have space to let all 400 horses run wild...

honda and japanese cars alike were designed in asia wich has very little space with a crap load of people so they figured a huge 400 HP v8 full size car would not be practical nor affordable to the common person. so they designed small very efficent cars so the common man could afford one and havent stopped since...

but to say everything the US car manufactures put out over the last 50 years is junk? thats just wrong...
Minic6 said that we need to give the American car makers some time to adjust to the Japanese onslaught. Here's the thing. Japanese cars have been coming to the US for 40+ years. The US makers have had plenty of time. Plenty of time to build a reliable product. Plenty of time to build a fuel efficient product. Plenty of time to build a desirable product. But they haven't.

Classic muscle cars are not junk. But I can't imagine trying to drive one to work every day. Maintenance would kill me, not to mention gas. US pickups are what they are. They have been relatively free from Japanese competition until the last 3 years or so. We'll see if US P/U engineers learned anything from watching the Japanese mop the floor with their car engineer buddies, or if they keep making the same product and get stomped by the Japanese too.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:26 AM   #26
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right here in the USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevette

assy: wilmington, delaware
lakewood, georga

best selling small car for the 79 and 80 model years

and my s-10 engine from mexico, frame from canada, assembled in shreveport, louisiana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_S-10
OK, that takes care of the assembly, but I read that it's based on the T-car developed in Germany and first introduced to Brazil in Spring of 1973. I asked because I saw the Opel Kadette (an obvious clone) in Europe before I ever saw the Chevette in the US.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:32 AM   #27
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Minic6 said that we need to give the American car makers some time to adjust to the Japanese onslaught. Here's the thing. Japanese cars have been coming to the US for 40+ years. The US makers have had plenty of time. Plenty of time to build a reliable product. Plenty of time to build a fuel efficient product. Plenty of time to build a desirable product. But they haven't.

Classic muscle cars are not junk. But I can't imagine trying to drive one to work every day. Maintenance would kill me, not to mention gas. US pickups are what they are. They have been relatively free from Japanese competition until the last 3 years or so. We'll see if US P/U engineers learned anything from watching the Japanese mop the floor with their car engineer buddies, or if they keep making the same product and get stomped by the Japanese too.
I agree. There have been SO many opportunities to improve but it seems that the Japanese (and now the Koreans) always stay one step ahead in terms of fewest maintenance issues, best fit-and-finish, etc. They've relied on Americans not noticing these things and just buying their marques out of pity but this strategy is clearly obsolete.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:18 AM   #28
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I am not asking anyone to give GM a chance at anything! They are reaping what they sowed period! What I wish people would see is that they also are not an enemy. Check your posts, GM is bashed more than any other of the big 3. It seems like everyone is mimicking the news. GM to them is all that is evil? Why they have to have something to talk about, and they are the biggest auto corp in the world. It was metioned about perceived quality, that is so true. Much of what people go by they have no REAL reason for why they like what they like. I have said this before and it's been said in this thread, recommending any new car is easy there are no Yogo's anymore, Lemons yes always will be, on a limited basis.
It also amazes me that no one has ever said anything about my comments as to Toyota's moving aggresivly into the truck and suv market, doesn't this make them as enviromentily evil as GM? Aren't they just as guilty of profit motivation instead of being green? The Prius only makes up 2% of US sales if not lower check into their trucks. Plus out selliing GM one month makes them KING?
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:31 AM   #29
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It seems they're stuck in the 70's My G/F's 2002 Monte SS is a nice car. Only a FEW things wrong with it so far (130,000 miles). The motor is a 3.8l. Its essentially a Buick motor from the 60's, only in aluminum. What amazed me is that it got 26mpg average according to the built in MPG gauge, which at the time was better than my 4cyl accord. Thats what got me started on this FE kick in the first place!
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Old 06-10-2007, 09:29 AM   #30
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It also amazes me that no one has ever said anything about my comments as to Toyota's moving aggresivly into the truck and suv market, doesn't this make them as enviromentily evil as GM? Aren't they just as guilty of profit motivation instead of being green? The Prius only makes up 2% of US sales if not lower check into their trucks. Plus out selliing GM one month makes them KING?
Toyota's SUVs and trucks are much more efficient and have much less emissions than GMs. If you look at the most recent UCS report on car manufacturers, they talk about the fact that Toyota was very close to first (After honda) in spite of their trucks. The reason they cite is because Toyota is able to build trucks that get better mileage and do not pollute as much. Certainly they suck compared to cars, but they are better than what anyone else (besides mehbe honda) is offering.
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