Classifying a "Clutchless Manual" Transmission - Page 3 - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

View Poll Results: For the Team Challenge, what is a "Clutchless Manual"?
Automatic Transmission 7 50.00%
Manual Transmission 7 50.00%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2007, 08:29 PM   #21
Registered Member
 
Spule 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 175
Country: United States
Rh 77, the best system I have seen was started by one of your favorite car companines back in 1955.

Citroen's Citromatic (Citromatique) was a conventional manual gearbox with clutch controled by the cars high pressure system, with control of shifting done by hand (with a small shifter the size of a pencil) that controlled a spool valve, this controlled fluid flow to the cylinders on the manual gearbox, and a low pressure pump sensed engine speed and would work the slave cylinder. A WONDERFUL system to drive, crisp and concise shifts, and if you had the gas pedal to the floor, the system would fling it back at you.

So you had to shift, let up on the gas, but no clutch pedal.

Here is more on the system:

http://www.citroen.mb.ca/tech/DStech...ion/index.html

Here is how to start the system (with the gear selector, prevents starting in gear, but you could also lock the system for push starts and crank starts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-kcPwVperM

Note how he also sets the ignition before the manual choke.

Neat system, never duplicated, both simple and complex at the same time.
__________________

__________________
"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber
Spule 4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007, 08:39 PM   #22
Registered Member
 
CO ZX2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 460
Country: United States
Antoine: I am a little late on this one. But I voted ? manual ? last week.... hummm ... don't tell CO ZX2 ... he will kill me !

CO ZX2:

Welcome to Team GasMisers5.

Antoine, you're an honest guy. We will get along just fine. I haven't shot at anybody since last Wednesday . After all, this is the Old West.
__________________

CO ZX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007, 08:47 PM   #23
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,978
Country: United States
Citro?n Citromatique

Good to see you back Spule 4

I came across Citro?n's design during my research on the subject. Good link to the video, BTW (it looks like a little arcing from the coil ). Cool car, though -- it's been around for a while - kinda surprised the concept didn't take off sooner.

I'm still waiting for that C4 Diesel-Hybrid...


Perhaps reliability was a concern -- I know BMW had quite the issue with their SMGs when first introduced a few years ago.

RH77
__________________
rh77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 08:41 PM   #24
Registered Member
 
Spule 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 175
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by rh77 View Post
Good to see you back Spule 4

I came across Citroën's design during my research on the subject. Good link to the video, BTW (it looks like a little arcing from the coil ). Cool car, though -- it's been around for a while - kinda surprised the concept didn't take off sooner.

I'm still waiting for that C4 Diesel-Hybrid...


Perhaps reliability was a concern -- I know BMW had quite the issue with their SMGs when first introduced a few years ago.

RH77
Citromatic was a pain when not right. Lurchy car. Forget valet parking.....

It was also a Rube Goldberg way to make an automatic. The Traction Avant was to have a full automatic, several were developed, none worked, more money, Andre went bust, and Michelin moved in for control.....

So, Citroen did the next best thing, and made a manual box fully automatic.

Now, this is not to be confused with the C-Matic that went into the CX and GS/A. These had true torque converters. Citroen also used the BW35 automatic for the last of the non-US D cars and for US SMs.

Another neat car with (I think) electric clutch and manual shift was the NSU Ro80. I think it was an electric clutch as there was a sensor switch on the shifter that would dis-engage the clutch the second your hand hit it. Kind of a pain, and a bit odd when you drove it (I have not driven one in nearly 20 years).

So, with the advances in torque converters and automatic gearbox technology, the Citromatic transmission was never really duplicated in its form, even by Citroen who had all that extra hydrualics in the cars already, so that should tell you something.......

EDIT: The Citroen 2CV cars also had an optional centrifical clutch in the 425cc motored cars.
__________________
"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber
Spule 4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:15 PM   #25
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 557
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spule 4 View Post
...Another neat car with (I think) electric clutch and manual shift was the NSU Ro80. I think it was an electric clutch as there was a sensor switch on the shifter that would dis-engage the clutch the second your hand hit it....
SAAB used this on their "Saxomat" optioned cars in the early 60's, probably the same device, or built under license. No pedal, an electric switch in the change lever operating a solenoid... Since so much early SAAB was copied from Germany (the first prototypes in 1949 used DKW engines, my V4 engine was built by Ford of Germany, even now the 9'3 is basically a rebadged Opel) it wouldn't surprise me if the two systems were the same.
But the NSU was later so maybe the SAAB was a failure first.
"Ve are Cherman. Ve vill learn from our OWN mistakes!"
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 08:26 AM   #26
Registered Member
 
Spule 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 175
Country: United States
Here is a good video of Citromatique starting and shifting, on a uber rare Jubilee none the less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZk6nHxE2TE
__________________
"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber
Spule 4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 06:06 PM   #27
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,978
Country: United States
Unsticking Thread

Thread Maintenance.
__________________

__________________
rh77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Distinction in 'garage' for cars we no longer own Smitty Fuelly Web Support and Community News 3 09-12-2008 07:50 AM
A RAV4 to go with the Prius? krousdb General Discussion (Off-Topic) 31 12-30-2006 05:32 AM
vx 5 wire o2 sensors on eBay!!! budomove For Sale 3 12-19-2006 07:41 AM
TPS Will a 88 Civic DPFI TPS Work on a 92-95 D15z1 8Civic8 General Maintenance and Repair 2 11-09-2006 11:12 PM
Neutralizing Our Environmental Impact SVOboy General Discussion (Off-Topic) 9 09-01-2006 07:23 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.