Diesel & Fuel Economy as seen in 2007 Europe - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2008, 05:31 AM   #1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Country: United States
Diesel & Fuel Economy as seen in 2007 Europe

I found the following:

European car manufacturers group, ACEA, says that of the 15 million cars sold during 2007 in Europe/EU:

* 53% were diesel

* 10 % were rated less than 120 g/km [which generally results in 45 mpg(US) combined average fuel economy or better]

* "gas-guzzling ... SUVs, are also seeing high demand, ... also taking a 10 percent share of the market"
http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=155088

Currently there appear to be over 85 models that meet the under 120 g/km criteria.
It should be noted that many of the SUVs in Europe are already rated in the 30 to 40 mpg(US) combined average range. Many are diesel.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search

What does this suggest about US markets if anything?

For what it is worth ...
__________________

__________________
44mpg by 2010

95 Civic CX HB 45 mpg highway; 38 average
95 Odyssey 28 mpg highway; 25 average

Project: 92 Civic LX AT 26 mpg average > ?VX/AT?
44mpg by 2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 07:23 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_SD26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 529
Country: United States
We're not taxed as heavily as Europe, so citizens make different choices. That changes how all manufacturers, domestic and foreign, approach the US market place.


Is diesel cheaper that petrol gasoline in Europe?

How much is the yearly tax on vehicles with engines above 1000cc? 2000cc?
__________________

__________________
Dave
GasSavers_SD26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 08:11 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 87
Country: United States
Actually it has a lot to do with emissions standards. Diesels are just extremely expensive to get to pass the US spec emissions, and the European standards are much more lax for diesels. Combine that with the much larger taxes that SD26 mentioned, and there's some very good reasons to choose a diesel fueled car over a petrol one. . .
__________________
samandw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 08:26 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_SD26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 529
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by samandw View Post
Actually it has a lot to do with emissions standards. Diesels are just extremely expensive to get to pass the US spec emissions, and the European standards are much more lax for diesels.
+1

It irritates me, as I'd love to have a diesel car, but the EPA continues to crush that option.
__________________
Dave
GasSavers_SD26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 08:47 AM   #5
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 557
Country: United States
Europe diesels are generally cleaner than the US standard. The biggest problem has been the difference in the relative weights assigned to each emitted compound.
The US EPA has totally and completely ignored the CO2 emissions. The EC uses CO2 as part of their total emissions calculation.
The US EPA has set a strict limit on NOx. Europe has had less stringent NOx limits. Those are the two major differences between the two standards.
The EC NOx limits are now tightened, the manufacturers have devised means of meeting the EC limits. As a result of these measures, and since the US finally joined the rest of the world in sulfur reduction in the diesel fuel to 50 ppm or less, not only do the European and Asian passenger diesels meet the US EPA limits for federal approval 45 state cars, but they also meet the CARB limits for those 5 states adopting the toughest in the world CA limits.
Diesels by nature of their inherent lean burn combustion system have a difficult time meeting the US NOx limit. The use of particulate filters and urea injection on the 2009 models coming in a few months will address this last US emission limit hurdle to diesel passenger cars.
Honda Accord / TSX diesel, anyone?
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 09:21 AM   #6
Registered Member
 
lunarhighway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 360
Country: United States
in belgium 3/4th of all cars are powered by diesel... diesels are taxed higher than petrol engined cars but diesel is much cheaper than petrol

today the max price is 1.22€/l for diesel
and
1.50€/l for 95ron octane pertol
prices at the pump ares usually 10 cent cheaper than the max price.

so that's about 7.85 $/gallon for petrol and 6.73$/gallon for diesel
however since the average diesel uses 1 to 2 liters less than the same car with a petrol engine the savings are substantial.

unfortunately emission standards to not include fine particles and less than 1% of all diesels is equipted with a particle filter...
this led to a series of "smog alerts" the last weeks where due to the weather conditions pollution was not diluded and the leves of Nitrogen and micro particles in the atmosphere where above the alert level.
as a counter measure the speed limit on most highways was dropped from 120km/h to 90km/h, and police speed checks where uped to enforce this... however these measures do little to cure the problem and ultimately a change in weather with more wind and rain was the only thing to wait for... had the situation lasted longer the most polluting industries would have to decerease or stop their production. regulations are being made to alternately allow the usage of even and uneven licence plates if this should reoccur in the future... something wich is expected. also plans are made to stimulate the retrofitment of particle filters.

the only good thing is that this long standing diesel tradition has caused these engines to become much more sophisticated than they once where and todays models are almost superior to petrol engines in both performance and emissions.

in fact a new "clean" diesel gets better FE than a hybrid (only in dense urban stop go traffic the hybrid is far superior of course).

cars are taxed according to engine volume and wheight of a car (something wich might be switched to emissions in the future) and i'm not sure about the speciffics but 2000cc and above are an absolute no-go if you want an afforbable car... so 1900cc is about the most you'll get in a "normal" not speed oriented car
__________________

lunarhighway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 05:22 PM   #7
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_SD26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 529
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarhighway View Post
cars are taxed according to engine volume and wheight of a car (something wich might be switched to emissions in the future) and i'm not sure about the speciffics but 2000cc and above are an absolute no-go if you want an afforbable car... so 1900cc is about the most you'll get in a "normal" not speed oriented car
How much?

I had a friend at a helmet company here in the US that worked in Belgium, and I remember he told me about a 3.0l company car costing thousands more because of the tax added to it at the time of purchase, then thousands each year after.

Personlly, I think it's ridiculous, but in Europe, I guess that's the price of the society?
__________________
Dave
GasSavers_SD26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:14 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 358
Country: United States
Send a message via MSN to baddog671
How come diesel is a less refined product, but cost more than gasoline..(in the US atleast)?

I'd love to convert my metro to diesel lol...
__________________
baddog671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 02:17 AM   #9
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_SD26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 529
Country: United States
Supply & demand. Taxes and government ethanol subsidies.
__________________
Dave
GasSavers_SD26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 05:57 AM   #10
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_RoadWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,652
Seems even Europe is backsliding a bit though, back in '96 in the UK I had a 50 imperial MPG car. Fiat Uno 55, was quite peppy and practical too, cruised effortlessly on the highway in 5th, about the size of a metro but a bit taller. Before that I had a guzzler that would only do 35 mpg imperial......
__________________

__________________
I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
GasSavers_RoadWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Incorrect Milage Calcuatlion PatM Fuelly Web Support and Community News 4 07-17-2009 08:21 PM
Missing Fuelup jmonty Fuelly Web Support and Community News 3 05-27-2009 05:10 AM
All Licensed Drivers terrapin Fuelly Web Support and Community News 0 08-07-2008 10:49 AM
hi new member here and ive got some sick ideas! csrmel Introduce Yourself - New member Welcome 6 10-18-2007 02:23 PM
Amazed by the SGII GeekGuyAndy General Discussion (Off-Topic) 7 08-19-2007 12:25 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.