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Old 05-29-2007, 02:54 PM   #11
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How/why is that?

There is much more technology required to get X size car to improve its efficiency by Y amount. The reason the Hybrid didn't catch on as quickly with the domestic auto makers is because its very difficult to get a whole lot more sales dollars for a car that gets 50 MPG over a car that gets 30 MPG even though there needs to be many more controls, lighter weight, and more advanced materials to accomplish such a task. As was mentioned, you can get high efficiency out of a car that usually gets lower efficiency, but you'll have to drive like a grandma and will be potentially polluting more in the process. The average American isn't willing to compromise their comfort or the way they travel in trade for better gas mileage...therefore the car companies need to make the vehicle "fit"...this is what costs money. Even if it's only an extra $1000 they have to spend on the vehicle, its going to cut directly into the bottom line. I'm not defending any car company here...I think they're scum (and I work for them). I just want to suggest that it is possibly as much a problem with the "consumer" as it is with the "supplier".

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Old 05-29-2007, 07:13 PM   #12
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Why are emissions lower? It has nothing to do with actually improving combustion, but rather the addition of 'patches' or external add-ons. I find that sad. It's also the same reason that I'm against hybrids. Why add something when you can put the R&D into fixing the problem at its source.

More power is cheaper on their end. We just foot the bill for the increase in fuel consumption.

Why is there a Dodge truck with a Viper engine in it? A diesel would be what you'd want to get sh*t done on the job site. Oh wait, the owner will never use it as anything more than a means transportation.
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I see no reason why fuel economy and power cannot coexist.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:26 PM   #13
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duh the dodge with viper engine cant tow or haul worth a crap. (my s-10 could out tow and haul it prolly)

but yea emissions improvements have been HUGE over the last 30 years. when my chevette is running and the wind is just right it will blow the exhaust into the window and ill get lightheaded in a matter of minutes. now one time in my auto mech class we started a newer car and wafted the exhaust and it didnt smell at all! smelled like steam...

but the reason why cars are heavier nowadays is all this safety BS. they have to stand up to front side rear cornner impacts otherwise thier conisdered not up to USA's standards. instead of spending a tiny bit of money to require a more rigerous driving test and higher fees to get your license (in germany its near $200usd just to get a license, here its $20) thats why alot of small cars arent imported from europe cuz they dont match up to our standards, but europe has alot stricter/tougher/costlier tests and requirements to drive.

yea front impacts your supposed to try to avoid but being in dee dee dee america with all these retarded drivers they would swerve at you instead of away...

if any of you do find yourself in a situation where a head on crash looks imminant swerve off the damn road if it looks somewhat safe, a cracked headlight/bumper/fender is alot easier to fix than a cracked skull. ive had to go off a ditch into someones front yard to avoid hitting a drunk driver head on. no damage to either party and obviously im here today, wish i woulda got the license plate of the guy...
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:58 AM   #14
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Emissions are not just lower due to patches. Fuel injection with O2 sensors and feedback loops does a lot to reduce emissions. The cat just gets the last little bit.

A car with a carb sitting in the driveway emits more HC than my car does driving to work and back...
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DrivenByNothing View Post
Why are emissions lower? It has nothing to do with actually improving combustion, but rather the addition of 'patches' or external add-ons. I find that sad. It's also the same reason that I'm against hybrids. Why add something when you can put the R&D into fixing the problem at its source.

More power is cheaper on their end. We just foot the bill for the increase in fuel consumption.

Why is there a Dodge truck with a Viper engine in it? A diesel would be what you'd want to get sh*t done on the job site. Oh wait, the owner will never use it as anything more than a means transportation.
What does being a hybrid have to do with patching a problem? I'm not following, sorry!
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:21 AM   #16
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All good points above.

I see it as a matter of what are you / we willing to give up?
I'm not willing to give up near-zero emissions.
I'm not willing to give up safety -
However I don't think safety requires a 4000+ lb. 4wd vehicle.
(3X I've been rear-ended in a rwd Volvo and NOT needed any body work!)

Personally I'm willing to give up some acceleration and power.
Personally I'm willing to give up some road speed (50-60 average is OK for me).

Some people in the US are already learning to conserve gas.
But we need a lot of education to get the changes we need. People have the most amazing concepts on why they can or should keep their driving habits as they are.

Example: I'm always talking FE with my family but my son (22) idles his car a lot. Complains of FE around 27-28 mpg but still idles the car. Huhh???

Example: MY wife still thinks its unsafe to coast in neutral with auto-trans. I have no idea why. Something about needing to apply speed immediately to get away from something.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:59 AM   #17
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Something about needing to apply speed immediately to get away from something.
Hmm. Are there flying monkeys in your neighborhood? That would explain it. :-)
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DrivenByNothing View Post
Why are emissions lower? It has nothing to do with actually improving combustion, but rather the addition of 'patches' or external add-ons. I find that sad. It's also the same reason that I'm against hybrids.
It is difficult (if not impossible) to get a mechanical carburetor to adjust to driving and environmental conditions the way that either an electronically controlled carburetor or fuel injection system can. Case in point are the various sensors on a modern car (ie. air temp, coolant temp, O2, etc).

Certainly add-ons such as an air-injection pump and catalytic converters produce their own inefficiencies in FE, but improved air quality is sometimes difficult to argue. Case in point, my wife is from Ukraine, and when visiting there or in Russia, it is a HUGE difference in air quality on the roads when compared to the US--almost entirely due to pollution controls.

Quote:
Why add something when you can put the R&D into fixing the problem at its source.

What problem source are you speaking of?
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:13 AM   #19
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Hmm. Are there flying monkeys in your neighborhood? That would explain it. :-)
I was wondering that too...perhaps pterodactyls??
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:15 AM   #20
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I can't remember the name of the comedian...but he had a worthy suggestion to make the roads a bit safer:

1) Remove all driver airbags,
2) Install a spear that shoots from the center of the steering wheel in the event of a frontal impact.

This would tend to make people a BIT more concerned about what is going on in front of them, and perhaps even make the slow down.
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