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Old 09-20-2006, 07:33 AM   #31
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E10 doesn't lower FE in all cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugyNA
"You will always get better gas mileage with the straight gas vs. gasahol because the alcohol dilutes the BTU's in the gas. And since an automobile engine is a BTU burner you will lose 5-10% in MPG.
I've heard this said many times (in the last few months, after looking for FE info on this site and others), however that's not true in all cars (so it's a YMMV thing). The thing that people who say this forget, is that while ethanol has less BTUs than gas, it also has some burn properties that some engines find "cleaner" (more ideal burn). And this difference in burn properties can offset the lower BTUs (in E10 vs E0) in some engines. As a result, not all cars get lower FE on E10 (some do, but some don't). And with some cars, this effect can more than compensate for the BTU difference, and actually give you better FE on E10 than you get on E0! So this is clearly a YMMV thing (i.e. try it in your car, and see how much of a FE difference it makes, and in which direction).

And FWIW my car actually appears to be one of them that is happier on E10 than on E0! I just got done doing my second E10/E0 ABA test (i.e. E10 => E0 => E10 ) this summer, and guess what? In both cases, both the FE and the performance went DOWN when I used E0, and back up when I put the E10 in. Now, I don't know how typical this is, but it is clearly not true that every car would benefit from using E0 (and therefore we should avoid gasohol at all opportunities). Instead, since this is a YMMV thing, you should really try it and see which is better for your car (assuming that both are available in your area). As for me, I think I'll stick with the E10, as I get more engine pickup/performance + better FE with it...
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoFelis
I've heard this said many times (in the last few months, after looking for FE info on this site and others), however that's not true in all cars (so it's a YMMV thing). The thing that people who say this forget, is that while ethanol has less BTUs than gas, it also has some burn properties that some engines find "cleaner" (more ideal burn). And this difference in burn properties can offset the lower BTUs (in E10 vs E0) in some engines. As a result, not all cars get lower FE on E10 (some do, but some don't). And with some cars, this effect can more than compensate for the BTU difference, and actually give you better FE on E10 than you get on E0! So this is clearly a YMMV thing (i.e. try it in your car, and see how much of a FE difference it makes, and in which direction).

And FWIW my car actually appears to be one of them that is happier on E10 than on E0! I just got done doing my second E10/E0 ABA test (i.e. E10 => E0 => E10 ) this summer, and guess what? In both cases, both the FE and the performance went DOWN when I used E0, and back up when I put the E10 in. Now, I don't know how typical this is, but it is clearly not true that every car would benefit from using E0 (and therefore we should avoid gasohol at all opportunities). Instead, since this is a YMMV thing, you should really try it and see which is better for your car (assuming that both are available in your area). As for me, I think I'll stick with the E10, as I get more engine pickup/performance + better FE with it...
I agree.
http://www.ethanol.org/documents/ACE...onomyStudy.pdf
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006..._tests_e1.html
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugyNA
Can't vouch for most of this:

"You will always get better gas mileage with the straight gas vs. gasahol because the alcohol dilutes the BTU's in the gas. And since an automobile engine is a BTU burner you will lose 5-10% in MPG. Try adding K-1 kerosene to your gas or gasahol. I've added 1 gallon per 10 gallons in my gas to offset the alcohol effect, and it cleans your fuel system at the same time. Try it."


"Think I stumbled across a combo that might help your winter mileage.

3 ounces of acetone
2 1/2 ounces of Xylene
1 ounce of Ethos FR $15.95 qt ..... $15.95 / 16 = $1.00 per 10 G

Ethos FR costs around $.62 per 10 G if bought by the gallon

Add this to every ten gallons of gasoline and try it out. You might have to adjust the acetone to what you were getting your best gas mileage with when you were using acetone. In my case three ounces did it for me.

Just started using this and mileage went to 21.5 on my F150. The best I could get in winter without anything was 19.0. The best in summer so far with acetone alone was 21. Will keep testing and fine tuning this combo and keep you updated but wanted to share with everyone out there."


""We recently proved that Carb Medic from Gunk (and other GUNK
products) can raise mileage when 1 to 3 oz. are used with 2 or 3 oz.
of acetone per 10 gallons of gasoline, especially in COLD WEATHER."

*LaPointe"


"I will say that some have added a few drops of #2 heating oil to about 10 gals of gasoline containing alcohol desiring to 'refresh' the deliberate de-powering of said fuel. Use the heating oil sparingly! Keep in mind that #2 oil is not thesame any longer to diesel. Let us know what you find. LaPointe"

"There are of course other additives that improve mileage (which also have had less than a favorable reception by the petroleum industry). Certain octane improvers for example also aid mileage. We recently proved that Carb Medic from Gunk can raise mileage when 3 oz. are used with 2 oz. of acetone per 10 gallons of gasoline, EVEN IN COLD WEATHER. LaPonte"

DATA?
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:56 PM   #34
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i hate the idea that you are forced to buy E10 and in some places E20, not only does it reduce fuel efficiency it cost more energy to create a gallon of ethanol than it is worth through cultivation, harvesting, processing and transportion, not to mention all of the pesticides and fertilizers used. i think E85 isent bad but you should have a choice in buying it.

bottom line Ethanol as a fuel SUCKS!!
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lane
i hate the idea that you are forced to buy E10 and in some places E20, not only does it reduce fuel efficiency it cost more energy to create a gallon of ethanol than it is worth through cultivation, harvesting, processing and transportion, not to mention all of the pesticides and fertilizers used. i think E85 isent bad but you should have a choice in buying it.

bottom line Ethanol as a fuel SUCKS!!
SUCKS ? Don't believe it.
In principle ethanol is great.

Don't blame it for an economic systems that is geard up to make any other non gas fuel more expensive.
If they used the wast bio-matter to make an alcohol fuel it would be cheap as chips.

And as for less FE and power is concerned , raise the engines compresion ratios and that will be restored , or improved on.

Base line is ,, its goverment (world govt) policy that makes all alternative fuels unviable and it will continue to be that way untill they work out a way to sell it at greater profit than what they get from gasoline.
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