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Old 03-01-2009, 11:08 AM   #21
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And your hydraulic electric hybrid wont have to use batteries? Am I missing something? What will be it's primary energy source if not a big battery? And where's that 14% loss for 2wd come from?? Last I checked, 4wd was worse due to more moving components and weight.

One hundred pounds? That seems awfully light compared to anything hydraulic I've ever seen, if you want to talk about hydraulics in use now. I've looked at accumulators and they all seem large, heavy, expensive, and with minimal energy storage capability. (Kinda like older batteries?) At least, the ones available for purchase by Joe Consumer like me.

I guess I'm just going to have to see your system when you build it. Not that I wish you failure, it would be a grand machine if you pull it off...

Good luck!

Dale
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:18 PM   #22
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The early Porsche 911 series had a self leveling option built by BOGE where the action of the front suspension supplied a volume of oil to give a self leveling to the front of the car where the luggage was.

The claim was a better ride and handling but the option cost and the repair and replacment costs meant the item was not commonly specified.

Pete.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:04 PM   #23
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RIDE, you inspired me to do some further research of my own into the world of hydraulics, and I found a few interesting things...

I found a 10 gallon, 3000psi (1500psi when nearly empty) 150lb accumulator (seems common) for about $900, and if I did my math right that works out to around 160 watt hours, or 780 HP-seconds. For a 2000lb car, like maybe a CRX with this added, that works out to enough energy to accelerate you from 0-40mph (My most common in-city scenario) 4 times WITHOUT regenerating any of it upon braking. While the accumulator wont get you more than a mile or so, it obviously can output vast amounts of power for a short period of time, way moreso than a hybrid-sized battery pack. Now, if you have 100 miles worth of LiIon or some other decent battery tech onboard, you already have a couple hundred HP of potential electrical energy to tap (and a reasonable recharge rate/efficiency hopefully) so I'm still not 100% sure it's worth it for that, but for a hybrid app it looks SWEET.

That said, it also looks like it'd cost me a few grand to outfit anything like this onto a car of my own, even using off the shelf components.... but oh so tempting...
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:58 AM   #24
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Dale think of the accumulator as a energy demand dampner. Long term storage is unnecessary. You would want enough accumulator storage to get from 0-60 once. Accumulators are very ancient tech. The Americas cup racers use 12,000 PSI accumulators, and carbon fiber will bring the weight down even further, without making them exorbitantly expensive.

Now downsize the engine (IC) initially but let someone like Gale Banks make it have a high power output. Lets say a 200 HP 2 liter turbo diesel design.

To this add an true aerodynamic body like the Mercedes Bionic style based on the Box Fish, with a CD of .19.

Its inportant to understand that a single 60-0 braking event wastes the fuel that could carry you 7 tenths of a mile at a steady speed of 50-60 MPH.

With my in wheel drive that only weighs the same as normal braking components, you have 4 wheel regeneration. The 4 wheel drive component is essential for 4 wheel brakes. It's not that I have any preference for 4 WD, but 4 wheel brakes are critical. In most circumstances you would never use the 4 wheel capability, except for braking events. There is no weight penalty if you understand that the system consists of the accumulator and the in wheel drives.

You no longer need a transmission, drive axles, differential, brakes, or any other components related to any of those systems. Acceleration merely changes the stroke of the in wheel drives which changes their displacement depending of the acceleration desired.

Braking merely reserses the process. The system will work equally well with any power source. By that I mean it could be electric or fuel consuming.

Right now lithium batteries are the next "great white hope" of those who beleive electric cars are the future. Others believe hydrogen fuel cells are the future. Honda has committed a lot of money in that direction. others believe Homogenous Charge compression engines are the future.

The fact is that any of the three examples would work fine in the design we are discussing. By removing the peak loads from the engine, you can run the engine only in it's sweet spot and double its efficiency. Design the engine for the application and efficiency goes even higher.

The IC engine configuration would cycle the engine to maintain accumulator pressure levels, adn the engines load during it's operation would be only at its ideal brake specific fuel consumption.

We should all know by now that is the essence of hypermiling, and the economy gains are dramatic.

Last point, the design I am promoting, of which my in wheel drive is only the cornerstone somponent of an already existing system, makes the car capable of "pulse and glide" because that operational tactic is an essentail component of the system. The difference is now the engine can pulse, but the vehicle speed remains the same. The advantages of pulse and glide without anyone around you knowing it is even happening.

Think of it as "stealth pulse and glide" your car does it automatically without any effort on the part of the driver. Even inefficient drivers would see little difference in mileage, harder stops and starts would only accumulate and supply the energy in less time.

All future energy consuming power sources, hydrogen, biofuel, electric, gasoline. diesel. would compete on a level playing field using the same powertrain platform, with operation strategies optimalized for the specific application.

The current lithium battery packs that would be necessary for 100 mile ranges cost as much as the whole vehicle I am describing with a simple small 4 cylinder engine.

Your 10 gallon accumulator would shrink in size by a factor of 4 if the operational pressure was 12,000 instead of 3000, thats 2.5 gallons of fluid.
A good compromise would be 6000 and a 5 gallon accumulator, that could be incorporated into the stricture of the vehicle, like and integral accumulator crossmember that supported the suspension and engine in a small FWD vehicle.

This is real stuff, and it will happen soon I hope. I appreciate that fact that you have looked at the concept because it is not easy to explain so that people can understand it.

My design could also be used in a bicycle. Parker hannefil has be sponsoring a contest called the Chainless Challenge for hydraulic drive bicycles. I actually think a small motor in an aero bike, with human power backup, may be the best intitial pathway to success.

Everyone here should make the effort to understand this better. if a man can pedal an airplane 42 miles, imagine what he could do if he could glide and pulse the airplane with short term high capacity lightweight storage. That was done decades ago. Check out the Gossamer Albatross, Condor, and Penquin. Those are the Human powered airplanes that flew the courses to win the Kremer Prize. The Condor is in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
The other 2 flew the English channel, and the mythological route of Icarus in the mediterranean that was 42 miles over water.

regards
gary
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:16 AM   #25
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Here is the battery of the future.

Google "NASA flywheel battery"

My design could use a battery of this type, IF it could be designed to work in an automotive environment.

The design could also use a flywheel for storage instead of a conventional battery or accumulator.

regards
gary
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:05 PM   #26
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Re: Electricity generating Shock absorbers

sorry for making this thread become a zombie but....
what if you could use the power of the shocks to help power the engine kind of like a turbo compound engine(uses a turbine of the front of the crank to help turn the engine i think it can net 50 hp) so it can help the engine.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:44 AM   #27
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Re: Electricity generating Shock absorbers

Holy crap, how rough are the roads there?!?
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:45 PM   #28
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Re: Electricity generating Shock absorbers

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Originally Posted by Shrek View Post
sorry for making this thread become a zombie but....
what if you could use the power of the shocks to help power the engine kind of like a turbo compound engine(uses a turbine of the front of the crank to help turn the engine i think it can net 50 hp) so it can help the engine.
I suspect any additional power to the engine would be used partially to get over the rough road you would need to generate said power. Laws of thermodynamics and all that stuff...
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:17 PM   #29
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Re: Electricity generating Shock absorbers

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Holy crap, how rough are the roads there?!?
in the country here, very rough since we have highs of 100's in the Summer and lows of -10 in the winter with plenty of patches and they usually take a month to repair holes
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