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Old 05-22-2008, 01:45 PM   #31
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Are you a climate scientist?
You know, I'm not a climate scientist (I'm an Engineer) but I always take what they and anyone else who's livelihood depends on research grants has to say with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:51 PM   #32
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there are better, more detailed links, but i'm sick of fighting the GW argument. basically, i found this on a limited search. so let's start drilling for new oil so our predictions can go down rather than up!

http://cei.org/pdf/5331.pdf
You are the one wanting to bring politics into the discussion.. If you read my comment carefully you will see that I make no mention of politics at all.

If you would like to learn more of popular climatology in an enjoyable fashion I would recommend John Barnes' _Mother of Storms_. It was there that I learned of the methane clathrate beds at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean and the major disaster that could unfold should those beds somehow release the thousands of cubic kilometers of methane they currently hold encased basically in ice crystals..

http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Storms-.../dp/0812533453

It's quite clear that the Arctic Ocean is warming, if and whether the clathrate beds release their methane thanks to this is currently an open question.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:53 PM   #33
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You know, I'm not a climate scientist (I'm an Engineer) but I always take what they and anyone else who's livelihood depends on research grants has to say with a grain of salt.
wise words. here's another good link w/ lots of good info...

www.globalwarming.org
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:55 PM   #34
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You know, I'm not a climate scientist (I'm an Engineer) but I always take what they and anyone else who's livelihood depends on research grants has to say with a grain of salt.
And I take anyone whose livelihood depends on pleasing their corporate employer words with considerably more than a grain of salt..

Maybe a dump truck or two.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by fumesucker View Post
And I take anyone whose livelihood depends on pleasing their corporate employer words with considerably more than a grain of salt..

Maybe a dump truck or two.
Are you aware of the environmental impact of that dumptruck load of salt? There's mining it, then processing it, and then the dumptruck...
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:15 PM   #36
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Fumesucker,

i'm confused. i do not take issue w/ you. and the only reference to politics i made was the blame game concerning Bush. THAT, is more hate and lack of integrity than politics. BTW, i'm an independant voter who blames both major parties for our pathetic and current state of the union.

now, what IS irritating is when someone will not even consider the aposing view. GW is a possibility, but i'm not convinced mankind is the end-all cause, effect, and solution. science is on both sides of the issue.

what complicates things more is when economics is involved in the theory of GW. sure, the USA should lead by example and work to lessen pollution, but at what cost? there should be a level playing field in relation to manufacturing and such in terms of enviro legislation impact on profitability(survivability).

China, India, and who knows how many others push for production w/out the thought of affects on the eco system. i believe, if something isn't done about fuel prices in the US, we could be headed toward a depression. environmentalism, conservationism, and the like go out the window in that scenario.

what's more important here, the environment or people? we need to work on present and future solutions. the question is can people be trusted to be a steward of the earth? it is my hope that we can. sadly, as it stands, mankind is a fossil fuel gluttonous polluter.
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:55 PM   #37
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good article from non-conservative CNN explaining the rise in fuel costs. i won't ruin it except to say that Bush and the domestic(US) oil companies are NOT to blame according to this report.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/20/news...ion=2008052010
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:16 PM   #38
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Fumesucker,

i'm confused. i do not take issue w/ you. and the only reference to politics i made was the blame game concerning Bush. THAT, is more hate and lack of integrity than politics. BTW, i'm an independant voter who blames both major parties for our pathetic and current state of the union.
And the only reference to politics that *I* made was none at all.

And it's been my experience that "independant" (sic) voters don't talk about "Bush haters"..

Quote:
now, what IS irritating is when someone will not even consider the aposing view. GW is a possibility, but i'm not convinced mankind is the end-all cause, effect, and solution. science is on both sides of the issue.
The only comment I made was regarding the excruciatingly slow pace of the moon's withdrawal from the earth. How you conflated that into me being a total tool of the Global Warming Chicken Little's I have no idea.
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:39 PM   #39
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THANK YOU. someone IS paying attention. we have 5% of the world's population and we consume 25% of the world's oil. hmmm...

BTW, something about GW i hadn't heard until recently...the moon is moving away from the earth affecting ocean waters AND global temps.

wouldn't be a suprise if the left tries to pin THAT one on Bush as well, along w/ fuel prices, the economy, katrina, and whatever else the haters push for.
If everyone who drove SUV's to work alone would switch to cars with 4 cylinder motors, our consumption would probably drop close to 25%. with is like 500 million barrels of oil per day. I bet that would drop the price a bit huh? Until we give up the inefficient vehicles. ts only gonna get worse. I still see 75% of the people around here in SUV,s, pickups and minivans. We are one of the few driveways on the whole street with out one of those. And many of them still get frustrated after following me blindly while on the cellphone, and when they finally figure out I'm only doing 60 mph, they just tromp it, and use more gas than my whole 20+ mile trip...


Another bumper sticker idea!

"Its not MY fault gas prices are high!"
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:45 AM   #40
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And the only reference to politics that *I* made was none at all.

And it's been my experience that "independant" (sic) voters don't talk about "Bush haters"..

The only comment I made was regarding the excruciatingly slow pace of the moon's withdrawal from the earth. How you conflated that into me being a total tool of the Global Warming Chicken Little's I have no idea.
the independants comment is a generalization. just can't believe so many blame one man for so many issues.

not saying that is your view, just saying there are those that ignore the science aposing their own view(on both sides). again, GW could be a real issue, but we may never know mankinds true influence unless politics is removed from the equation.
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