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Old 09-17-2007, 07:05 AM   #1
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Honda Fit close to 50MPG?

I heard that in Europe and Japan they have a different version of the Honda Fit called the Honda Jazz. This version is a 1.3 or 1.4 liter engine and it gets close to 50 miles per gallon. There is also a different version called with a 7 speed CVT automatic transmission. There is also a i-DSI model which uses two spark plugs per cylinder to the engine to burn fuel much more efficiently. This model could easily get 60 miles per gallon on the highway.

Now why can't we have cars like these in the USA??

Here is the link for more information.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=60
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:07 AM   #2
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I heard that in Europe and Japan they have a different version of the Honda Fit called the Honda Jazz. ...and it gets close to 50 miles per gallon. ... There is also a i-DSI model which ...could easily get 60 miles per gallon on the highway.

Now why can't we have cars like these in the USA??
If you want to get angry about it then stand in line. Car manufacturs have long restricted what is available to US buyers. Due the the nature of gas prices, there is a growing list of cars that are available overseas (outside the US) that are NOT available here. Did you know that there is a hatchback version of the Corolla??? and also a version that uses a smaller engine yeilding about 60mpg. Did you know that bragging about getting over 40mpg will prob cause people in Europe to LAUGH at you. Getting 50-60+ mpg is not that big of a deal over there as there are a multitude of cars that reach those benchmarks.
One thing for sure is that George Bush LOVES the American car industry. His big advice a few years ago was to drive less, knowing that would prob not happen which would continue to put more money in his hands and those of his Arabian friends. Its dissappointing to see what car makers can do overseas and not do here. Sometimes its due to stricter American safety regulations but more often than not its pure economics and the greed of United States capitalism and uncaring, corrput and misleading officials.
You can get in line if your angry, frustrated or just dissapointed about the state of America FE in cars today, but dont dare try to cut in front of me on that line.
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:25 AM   #3
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... I think we need to come up with a new variation on Godwin's law.

"Any conversation related to a problem in America will inevitably have someone blame the problem on Bush."

The real problem is the people.

While there is a small, dedicated sect of Americans that would happily buy a small, underpowered car that gets incredible FE, most people prefer the illusion of safety provided by a larger car, and most people prefer powerful cars.

There's a reason the XFi, the VX, and even the Insight were canceled... They didn't sell enough to make it worth it to the companies that made them.

If anything, the problem isn't that the government is in cahoots with the oil companies and wants to make the maximum money by using as much gas as possible, it's that the government was able to coerce the oil companies into selling gas at a far lower price than they could, so that most Americans never really feel enough of a pinch at the pump to make them change to a smaller, weaker, less impressive car.

America has some of the cheapest gas in the world, not counting the oil producing countries.

So Honda, Ford, and all the other car companies could bring over the cars that get 60+ MPG, but the average American would rather have a larger, "safer", more powerful car that gets perhaps only 30+ MPG. Those cars would be snapped up by hypermilers, but there's not enough of us to make a difference to the car companies.
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:37 AM   #4
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Took the words right out of my mouth Biff!
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:56 AM   #5
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Well there is some good points made here for both sides. I agree with alot that has been mentioned. And I realize that the VX, the XFi, Insight were all slow selling models but at one point so was the Prius-I. I don't remember it being as big a deal as it is now. Everyone has to remember that gas was well under $2.00/gallon when the Prius was new. Heck when the VX and XFi were new, gas was under a buck. There was no push back then.

Automakers probably won't start offering their euro-counterpart until they decide to build them over here. They will have to remove other cars from their lineup first. They just don't want to lose a profitable line of cars. That's why it will take outside importers like what Penske is doing with the Smart (IIRC). They have nothing to lose and everything to gain out of the deal. I am willing to bet that within a few years there will be more importers offering several mini/microcars.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:23 AM   #6
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Well there is some good points made here for both sides. I agree with alot that has been mentioned. And I realize that the VX, the XFi, Insight were all slow selling models but at one point so was the Prius-I. ...
Nice to hear an unbiased opinion. Everyone is actually right. The American consumer is a HUGE part of the problem. 90lb soccer moms are driving Lincoln Navigators. I have nothing against huge cars that get 15mpg if used properly and for just cause. Dropping kids off to scooll and running errands in an SUV is my definition of irresponsibility. Its one thing if you NEEEEEED a large car for certain tasks and can only afford one car. In that case you have no choice but most people buy large cars for the assumed safety and the prestige. Then they complain about the price of gas.

I would just like to see more options available in the US. The US is a huge financial market for any auto maker and they are greedy. They dont like to sell small cars because they are not as profitable. maybe the high sales of Prius's will help chnage that notion. What also needs to be noted is the lackluster effort in promoting and selling economical cars. GMs lacadasical and misleading approach to the electric car many years ago is a prime example.

Maybe a 'mpg tax' would be a good jumpstart to more economical cars. It would make people more conscious about what they are driving. All the attention that global warming (which we created) may be the best thing that could have happened for the initiative to improve FE on American-sold cars.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:56 AM   #7
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Nice to hear an unbiased opinion. Everyone is actually right. The American consumer is a HUGE part of the problem. 90lb soccer moms are driving Lincoln Navigators. I have nothing against huge cars that get 15mpg if used properly and for just cause. Dropping kids off to scooll and running errands in an SUV is my definition of irresponsibility. Its one thing if you NEEEEEED a large car for certain tasks and can only afford one car. In that case you have no choice but most people buy large cars for the assumed safety and the prestige. Then they complain about the price of gas.

I would just like to see more options available in the US. The US is a huge financial market for any auto maker and they are greedy. They dont like to sell small cars because they are not as profitable. maybe the high sales of Prius's will help chnage that notion. What also needs to be noted is the lackluster effort in promoting and selling economical cars. GMs lacadasical and misleading approach to the electric car many years ago is a prime example.

Maybe a 'mpg tax' would be a good jumpstart to more economical cars. It would make people more conscious about what they are driving. All the attention that global warming (which we created) may be the best thing that could have happened for the initiative to improve FE on American-sold cars.
I would guess that 90% or more of all pick up trucks and SUV's are severely under-utilized, and this is a massive problem with the USA. Cars are fashion. People will judge you by what you drive. People care too much about appearances. Shallow, to be sure. It's the land of Brittney Spears, Hip Hop, Girls Gone Wild videos, and other morally bankrupt notions. A sign of the times. The social fabric of the USA is plunging down, and our once strong moral fiber is tattered, to be sure.

I could easily sell my Yaris and buy any car cash up to $100,000 in value, but I don't, as I care a tad about the environment, saving money, and frankly, I don't care what my neighbors think of me, nor care if I am judged as an "underachiever" simply because I drive a $13,000 car.

It's about feeling secure with one's self, not caring what others think. It's about being happy and doing the right thing.

As to why the small high MPG cars are not sold here, don't blame Bush....you give the idiot too much credit and power....blame the American People...thy're the true idiots, most of them anyways....this coming from an American ;-)

As to global warming, I'm not a believer that we humans caused it. Sure, it is happening, and sure we contribute to it, but even if all gas powered cars never existed, global warming would still be in our midst. Still, we need to get off oil, and find cleaner, safe, and cheap ways to transport ourselves around.
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:14 AM   #8
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There is indeed a 24 km/l (Advertised) jazz in japan, but one thing I learned during my time there is that honda and toyota's japanese and US auto offerings are so COMPLETELY different. It's not like models just carry over and are the same, honda motor co and honda of north america run the show completely differently. The same can be said for toyota and all the others, but they have a bit more of the same types of cars (toyota is the major seller of huge SUVs in japan and they are all the same as the us models, whereas honda doesn't sell anything bigger than the cr-v in japan).

So, yes, it sucks, but in the automotive business it doesn't seem as simple as just importing a drivetrain. Each region-specific head office has to worrying about production facilities and sales space and advertising and overall feasability. *shrug*

If I could pick one car to have imported it'd be the Honda Life.
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Old 09-17-2007, 11:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by MorningGaser View Post
I would guess that 90% or more of all pick up trucks and SUV's are severely under-utilized, and this is a massive problem with the USA....blame the American People...thy're the true idiots, most of them anyways
...
I have to agree with you 100% there. Some might even say that you are severely under-emphasizing the use of the word severely and that it should be in CAPS

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...As to global warming, I'm not a believer that we humans caused it. ....
Have to respectfully disagree with you there. The recent change i nglobal warming severely deviates from the normal deviations and anomalies for thew past thousands of years. This does not seem like Earths natural movement
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Biffmeistro View Post

While there is a small, dedicated sect of Americans that would happily buy a small, underpowered car that gets incredible FE, most people prefer the illusion of safety provided by a larger car, and most people prefer powerful cars.
Hey, may car isn't underpowered... It gets where I need it to go

But that being said - a larger (as read: heavier) will always have an edge on safety. Mass wins in a collision - the more mass you have, the less energy you're required to absorb.

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I would guess that 90% or more of all pick up trucks and SUV's are severely under-utilized, and this is a massive problem with the USA.
here's an interesting "case study". But even so, 60% is a big number and that's a very localized "study" (only counting "stuff" not tonnage) But he makes a very good point - empty bed space is just as bad as empty car space. I have 5 seats, and I do my best to have at least 3 filled when I go somewhere (okay, sometimes I need to drive to pick people up, but I still count that better than 3 cars with 1 person each).

Really, do so many people "need" a truck to avoid a once yearly $30 delivery charge?

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I heard that in Europe and Japan they have a different version of the Honda Fit called the Honda Jazz.
Other way around, we have a different version of the Jazz, called the [un]Fit.

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Maybe a 'mpg tax' would be a good jump start to more economical cars. It would make people more conscious about what they are driving.
I think something like that was proposed in CA. But it's a tax that has 0 net impact on %tage of tax collected. It was a tax-credit system. Heavy consumers would basically pay those that have cars with better FE. It's a good idea, but it really needs exceptions to be closer to viable in my opinion.

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Have to respectfully disagree with you there. The recent change i nglobal warming severely deviates from the normal deviations and anomalies for thew past thousands of years. This does not seem like Earths natural movement
Round 2..... FIGHT!

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As to why the small high MPG cars are not sold here, don't blame Bush....you give the idiot too much credit and power....blame the American People...thy're the true idiots, most of them anyways....this coming from an American ;-)
I completely agree... I, for one, loathe the current administration (really, it's not just one guy, although technically his crew filled most of the positions) - but he is not the reason he is in office. We are the reason he is in office (even if you didn't vote for him - even if you didn't vote).

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If anything, the problem isn't that the government is in cahoots with the oil companies and wants to make the maximum money by using as much gas as possible, it's that the government was able to coerce the oil companies into selling gas at a far lower price than they could, so that most Americans never really feel enough of a pinch at the pump to make them change to a smaller, weaker, less impressive car.
It doesn't hurt that people (citizens) complained too. We, as a whole, asked for it - and got exactly what we asked for... A bandage covering an infected injury. Looks pretty, just as long as you leave it covered


I can't wait for SMART to finish setting up shop... And I REALLY hope they make a killing on sales. Perhaps that's the kind of motivation needed to get FE higher on the priority list for N. American car production. Really, attack their bottom line - and change will come fast
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