How well would a de-hybridized Insight peform (FE wise)? - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Go Back   Fuelly Forums > Fuel Talk > General Fuel Topics
Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-14-2006, 06:43 AM   #1
Registered Member
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,223
Country: United States
How well would a de-hybridized Insight peform (FE wise)?

I do have to wonder - and I'm certain this has been raised elsewhere - how well the Insight would perform, FE wise, without its hybrid components. I.E: essentially a Honda Metro . Is this even possible?

Theoretically, its pulse & glide capabilities and highway fuel economy figures shouldn't be drastically affected.

Of course, its ICE would have to be pushed much harder to achieve the same level of street performance in the city, so FE would suffer noticeably there, but in the hands of a hypermiler???

I've seen a few advertised, and their prices are shockingly low (pardon the pun), considering their initial cost: EG: $9K CDN ($8082 US) asking price for this 2000 with just 75,000 km (46,602 miles) on the clock:

http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...9&adid=5513866

Another plus is the rust-resistant aluminum construction means older ones will last longer in the rust belt.



I imagine in a couple of years, the resale value of an out-of-warranty car needing an IMA battery or DC-DC replacement would be ripe for the picking - that's what has me wondering...
__________________

MetroMPG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 06:52 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,223
Country: United States
I see one challenge to de-hybridizing is the car has no alternator - it's got accessory power from a DC-DC converter off the IMA pack.

But even without IMA, its 3-cyl has a better power:weight ratio than the Metro.
__________________

MetroMPG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 08:20 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Country: United States
Send a message via AIM to Brian D.
I heard those IMA's are pretty pricey. Any idea how long they last? I'm sure some 50K+ miler-per-year commuter must know by now. There are probably at least a few of those cars with close to 200K on them by now.
__________________
GAS GSLR
Brian D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 11:58 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
omgwtfbyobbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,516
Country: United States
I'd say pretty well. You'd be able to hit 60mpg@50mph cruising np, and P&G in that range should allow for ~80-100mpg. I've heard P&G nets ~80mpg@55mph average including city/stops/slows, so that's ~65-70mph freeway. You could add one of those electric fifth wheels with a suitable battery pack and a ?V DC->12V DC converter.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaTwo
I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
omgwtfbyobbq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 12:04 PM   #5
Registered Member
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,223
Country: United States
Surely it would beat 60 mpg @ 50 without IMA, wouldn't it? The Cd .31-ish Blackfly beats that currently. Don't forget the Insight's lean burn capabilities.

Dan saw 75 mpg @ 55 mph in his lean-burn VX. Though he also reported the lean-burn window is wider on the VX than the Insight.

But... I wonder how clever IMA is in holding the Insight in lean burn once it's there by providing small amounts of boost when needed...
MetroMPG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 12:26 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
omgwtfbyobbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,516
Country: United States
Probably, but not by a whole lot, whatever the percentage reduction in weight is? The EPA highway test has the car bouncing around, so if you set the cruise control at 55mph you should get lean burn plus weight reduction. The only serious problem I can think of is how IMA couples with the ECU. Would pulling the system result in some serious wonkiness?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaTwo
I think if i could get that type of FE i would have no problem driving a dildo shaped car.
omgwtfbyobbq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 12:28 PM   #7
Registered Member
 
zpiloto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,225
Country: United States
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

According to greenhybrid they averarge 64 MPG with the 5 speed. It seem to me that a lot of folks that have hybrids just drive them like regular cars. The number they have listed for the Prius is about what you would get if you just drove it like a non hybrid. So I would think that in the hands of a seasoned hypermiler you could easily throw 30% on top of that depending on commute.
zpiloto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 03:31 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
krousdb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,480
Country: United States
Location: Raleigh, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG
Surely it would beat 60 mpg @ 50 without IMA, wouldn't it? The Cd .31-ish Blackfly beats that currently. Don't forget the Insight's lean burn capabilities.

Dan saw 75 mpg @ 55 mph in his lean-burn VX. Though he also reported the lean-burn window is wider on the VX than the Insight.

But... I wonder how clever IMA is in holding the Insight in lean burn once it's there by providing small amounts of boost when needed...
The Insight will beat the crap out of 60MPG at 50 MPH. At cruising speeds and when using DWL, IMA doesn't really come into play. IMA is only valuable to capture regen to power the electronic overhead.. Other than that, you want to stay out of it.

Remember during the Drive-in Rally at the TDS, Wayne and I teamed up for a 96MPG over 1000+ miles. The average speed was 45-50 MPH with strong headwinds and driving rain at times. We would have rather had left the IMA behind and take the weight reduction;

At 55-60 MPH, the Insight is on the edge of lean burn. On the VX, 70 MPH is not a problem on a level road. But the VX also has one more cylinder and 50% more displacement so that makes sense to me.

To answer the original question, as long as you could convince the various ECU's into believing that a missing IMA is not a problem, a hypermiler could do some major damage with an IMA less Insight.

PS, in addition to not having an alternator, I dont think that the Insight has a starter either. You would need a workaround for that also.
__________________


krousdb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 05:42 PM   #9
Registered Member
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,223
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by krousdb
To answer the original question, as long as you could convince the various ECU's into believing that a missing IMA is not a problem, a hypermiler could do some major damage with an IMA less Insight.

PS, in addition to not having an alternator, I dont think that the Insight has a starter either. You would need a workaround for that also.
Good info everybody, thanks.

If the engine has an exposed crank pulley (or something that could be made into a pulley), a belt starter/alternator may kill 2 birds with one stone.

Anyway, the idea has a lot of appeal to me.
MetroMPG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 07:25 PM   #10
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,325
Country: United States
Send a message via AIM to GasSavers_Ryland
the insight does have a 12 volt starter, maybe it's a requirement or something in some states, I know that wisconsin requires you to have a -wet- cell battery (personaly read it in the state statutes) how ever the insight does not have a fly wheel, insted the computer pulsses the moter between acting as a motor and a generator as each pistion fires to even out the vibration and engine speed, making it run very smooth.
__________________

GasSavers_Ryland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2006 Georgia Tech Auto Show Review w/ Pictures GasSavers_DaX General Discussion (Off-Topic) 10 04-06-2006 07:54 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.