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Old 01-30-2006, 06:39 AM   #171
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try this instead

Anyone try adding a little propane into the engine and let the oxygen sensor compensate - sort of a multifuel setup??
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:14 PM   #172
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Re: Whaaaa??

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Are you guys looking for perpetual energy here or what - without reading all 6 pages of posts . . . the best electrode material is platinum and the best electrolite is Sufuric Acid. Get some old spark plugs for the electrodes - tungston is a very high temperature metal thats why they weld with it and use it in light bulb filaments DUH! What you need is something that is corrosion resistant and will not react with oxygen . . . Platinum!! Never heard of baking soda for electrolite however - guess I can learn a few things. The energy to make the gas separate - and you want to burn both by the way - need oxygen for the H2 to burn with - but the only gain I can see is if you have a fuel problem with the gasoline vaporization which we already take care of with the additives. Better to make it at home of a wind generator and bottle it up in tanks and burn it in the car later.

FYI there was a lot of work down in Europe last year on heating the fuel - both gas and diesel - at the injectors with exhost manifold heat to better vaporize the fuel when it is injected. Seems to get much better power and economy. It works for oil furnaces in your home too.

Spark plug electrodes would present too small of a surface area to generate enough H2. Multiple plates or concentric cylinders (think Joe's Cell) are best. The real trick is figuring out what type of signal to use to drive the electrolysis process. Fran at Hydrogen-boost.com uses 12volts @ 20amps, Peter Lowrie supposedly uses 2volts at some alternator killing 70amps. Based on the research I've done I believe the key is either in a higher voltage pulsed signal (PWM) or something in the high voltage RF range.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:23 PM   #173
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power source

I'm a EE with a lot of power electronics background as well as computer - you want amps to make gas and not high voltage - high voltage makes heat - the electrode material and electrolite will determine the minimum voltage needed to start making the gas - that is why platinum is best as it presents the lowest voltage requirements along with sulfuric acid. The electrode of a plug could be flattened out I think but it is probably just a coating on the base material and thinking about it - they are pretty small.

Power source - you need a switching current source. The use of a fet or fast transistor and inductor with fast diode will allow you to current boost the 12 volts from the car battery while dropping the voltage to whatever the electrodes need at the current you drive them at. So if you can drop the 12 volts down to 2 volts you get 6 times the current give or take a little losses. Other option is multiple cells in series with low drops across each adding up to the 12 volts.

But the point I think you are all missing is you can't expect any energy gain from this setup. It takes more energy to split the water apart than you get back when you burn it.

A better idea would be solar cells to keep the battery charged and the block heated. Charging the battery while driving would lighten the electrical load on the alternator which is pretty inefficient to begin with. Would love to convert my 90 amp alternator to a brushless generator / motor.
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Old 02-01-2006, 05:16 AM   #174
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Re: power source

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But the point I think you are all missing is you can't expect any energy gain from this setup. It takes more energy to split the water apart than you get back when you burn it.
I haven't missed that point...from the begining of this thread, my brain has been whispering "perpetual motion...perpetual motion" - perhaps it's just the engineer in me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:51 AM   #175
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Re: power source

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But the point I think you are all missing is you can't expect any energy gain from this setup. It takes more energy to split the water apart than you get back when you burn it.
I haven't missed that point...from the begining of this thread, my brain has been whispering "perpetual motion...perpetual motion" - perhaps it's just the engineer in me.
What are you talking about? I saw "The Saint." I know that cold fusion is possible.

Besides, they achieved it here in Utah a while ago... right? right?

(this entire post was sarcastic)
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:01 AM   #176
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Re: power source

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Originally Posted by DaX
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But the point I think you are all missing is you can't expect any energy gain from this setup. It takes more energy to split the water apart than you get back when you burn it.
I haven't missed that point...from the begining of this thread, my brain has been whispering "perpetual motion...perpetual motion" - perhaps it's just the engineer in me.
What are you talking about? I saw "The Saint." I know that cold fusion is possible.

Besides, they achieved it here in Utah a while ago... right? right?

(this entire post was sarcastic)
The Saint's a good flick -- even better soundtrack. Great drivin' tunes.

In other news, the State of the Union Address touched on our "addiction to oil". PLEASE do not make this a political discussion, but the focus seems to be shift to Ethanol and a Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle to be research by the Dept. of Energy, and better hybrid batteries (?). I'm glad it was at least mentioned.

RH77
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:44 AM   #177
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Re: power source

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In other news, the State of the Union Address touched on our "addiction to oil". PLEASE do not make this a political discussion, but the focus seems to be shift to Ethanol and a Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle to be research by the Dept. of Energy, and better hybrid batteries (?). I'm glad it was at least mentioned.
rh77 - responded to this in a new thread to keep it out of the hydrogen thread
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:25 PM   #178
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Ideal Power Source

Ok guys it just dawned on me that I have the motor controllers for my eCycle motors that tank in 12-63 volts DC and can switch regulate it down to about 1 volt at 100-150 amps output DC current limited and variable voltage. You could setup four light SLA or any chemistry batteries to keep the electrical load separate from the engine and run the hydrogen generator off of them and recharge them off the grid or off the electrical system while going down hill. Oh and get this if you take the output of the controller and connect it to the 12 volt system on your vehicle you can draw (with some adjustment) 50 amps into the controller from the output side (regen mode) and boost it back into the four battery high voltage pack to recharge at 600+ watts off the engine 12 volt battery.

SO . . . who has a generator cell that can handle that much current?? This sounds better than trying to add a electric motor to the wheels if there are some significant gains.
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:19 PM   #179
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do car batteries emit

do car batteries emit hydrogen gas when theyre charging?
if so, it may be worthwhile to build an airtight box around the battery and a hose to the intake.
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:25 PM   #180
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H4 O2

Yeah they give off hydrogen and oxygen and other than using some water in the process it should not harm the plates too much however you have to overcome the added plate voltage when charging them 2.375 volts per cell and above (14.25volts for 6 cells) is when they really start to produce gas. You have to watch out for the acid fumes and droplets from the bubbles popping. You should be able to put a rubber stopper in each filler hole and pipe it all together and vent it to the engine.
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