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Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

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Old 01-29-2010, 10:15 PM   #91
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drifttec101

one thing to consider with the shop vac hose is where you are going to put it. not sure if it would melt near the exhaust manifold (that would stink)

I understand what you say about a deeper understanding but you also have limitations there too. my foucs has shifted in my car from seeing how much better I can get the MPG, to keeping the thing running. I (like many others) have quite a few miles on my vehicle. I clicked over 195K and that is on a domestic that was recently wrecked for the second time (deer, I'm fixing it). though a better understanding would be nice, it does require usually more equipment than most of us have.

I am not trying to downgrade anyones knowledge buy using the term "layperson". I am just saying that for the majority, this isn't what we do for a living. there are a few don't get me wrong, but the majority of us don't even have access to the equipment needed (maybe I should just speak for myself)

I also think that once seeing results for a solid year, you won't want to remove the WAI (as per your experiment) and also, not sure if my car will make it another 2 years (several of us in that boat)

most of us are one soccer mom's cell phone call distraction away from being totalled.

we have learned some things that can be applied here (though I am not sure how much of this is covered). cars using an IAT sensor tend to react well where as ones with a MAP sensor don't. saturns seem to really notice it (lovemysan is another user that has seen very good results though he is no longer active). the higher the temp delta, the better the results. max temp is somewhere between 180 and 220 degrees F.

there may be more but that is what I can come up with at 1ish in the morning.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:35 PM   #92
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the concept of all this being snake oil is an interesting one.

my thing about that is that there is no aftermarket gizmo for sale here. most snake oil salesmen are selling something. we are suggesting that you go out and buy some metal tape, dryer vent hose, and window flashing. unless someone here works for lowes home improvements, nobody is gaining anything from anyone else trying it.

the concept of unbelieveable gains from a product that you can only purchase from me....that's snake oil

sharing an idea that really worked for me and has for others that none of us will gain from (gain from sharing the idea, not MPG gains) isn't snake oil

personally, I am more inclined to hear out a person that isn't selling a product or doesn't give a web link where I can purchase something than I am a person that is and does (you know, a real salesman)
i was just kidding about snake oil, thats what rush limbaugh would say and all his trogledites would worship
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:39 PM   #93
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I didn't think that you personally thought it was snake oil but there are clearly some that do believe that (whether they say it or not)
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:46 PM   #94
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Sorry, but there are no 25%, 33%, or 50% WAI gains. Spotaneagle and Project84 are the only two claiming these large gains. Spot only has two tanks recorded for his car, showing no mileage gain. Project84's car also shows no gain. From July 08 through this winter, his city mileage has stayed right at 25-27 mpg. What correlates with good mileage in his mileage log is his highway trips in summer '08. That's when he got his 43 mpg tank and all his 30+ mpg tanks. It wasn't his WAI. It was his highway drives.
bahahaha I dont have the time to record all the details here

I only claimed a modest 20% using real world testing scientific METHOD for ABOUT FOUR WEEK I TRIED TO GET THE HIGHEST MPG I COULD AND ONLY GOT 34 AND THEN FOR about four months I used a WAI and I am using this to come up with what I am saying, THEN I LOST THE ABILITY TO CHECK MPG AND HAVE IT MEAN MUCH because of a change of commute
7MPG + FROM AN AVERAGE OVERALL OF 30 MPG TO 36 OR 37

THERE MUST BE SEVERAL DOZEN IF NOT MORE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD HERE CLAIMING POSITIVE RESULTS

THE HIGHER AVERAGE COMES FROM CITY DRIVING WHICH IS AFFECTED MORE IN TERMS OF RAISING MPG BY A WAI,
being convinced of positive results and by my tedious testing methods, I feel that the other HOT air intake experiment I did was accurate at 45mpg while my best result with my new current Warmer air intake setup was 42,
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:02 PM   #95
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Darin at metrompg has done ABA testing with a WAI, and found no benefits.
metro's are known for not getting benefit from this, they probably have it built into the design of their engines via emissions controls because they were actually built for good mileage, and you probably have to do so much downshifting that the higher rpm makes up for what gas is saved... kind of like in the new prius they use a bigger engine a 1.9 instead of a 1.8 to get better mileage because it has better low end torque and can get more power at a lower rpm which uses less gas, exactly why 99 sats get better mileage, low end torque, a 1.3 3 banger that has to be tached out to get is moving is going to use more gas to do so and the engine will probably compensate somehow.. hence no positive result

ya ya they gave the prius a bigger engine to get better mileage


but another thing is too, sticker price of a metro is what 8 grand new? a saturn is 10-16 grand? maybe metro lack certain things a saturn might have... cause its so cheap..

but having explored that possibility I'd put my money on his metro being so efficient already that there's little improving on it at 50mpg, maybe the 33 mpg metro, a WAI might work on
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:11 PM   #96
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after seeing the results of cheapybob's experiment(which you should look up on saturnfans.com o misbelievers)

it kind of leads me to believe without severe aerodynamics, batteries, magnetic engines, fuel vaporizers, or fuel heaters it's probably impossible to breach the 80mpg mark with a 2000lb car using a gas powered engine


also another thing to consider is that warming the air going into your engine in extreme heat climates with alot of humidity will probably give you extreme results because you are most likely putting the air at a point where it allows gasoline to vaporize more easily in your cylindars right before your plug sparks.

oh yea look up lawnmower runing off of vapors on youtube..
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:17 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by R.I.D.E. View Post
Its the same reason that in the old days you had to preheat the air going into the carburetor to prevent carb icing. Since the gasoline wont freeze until close to 100 degrees below zero, how can it freeze in a carburetor below 60 degrees? The answer is it doesn't really freeze, it just doesn't properly atomize.
I thought carb icing was water condensed from the air.

Modern GM V8 engines come with a coolant line that goes into the throttle body to prevent icing.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:44 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by severach View Post
These are continuous speed averages. Some trip averages can be close but tank averages are lower. 33 MPG has been verified over a long trip. 41 MPG has not been verified over a long trip though gauge movement over medium trips seems to indicate that it is correct.
A fuel economy benefit can't begin to be declared successful until you've gotten a few tanks from it. Until then, a single tank or a single trip is enough to report hope and get excited.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:52 AM   #99
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I've created a thread for people who have tried a WAI to report their success or failure. Hopefully in future WAI discussions (or if this one lasts a long time), we'll have some real data.
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=11963
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:26 AM   #100
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I thought carb icing was water condensed from the air.

Modern GM V8 engines come with a coolant line that goes into the throttle body to prevent icing.
My 37 Ford had an exhaust passageway under the carburetor in the intake manifold. Many of the aluminum manifolds were badly corroded from exhaust gasses.

63 Valient had the intake manifold bolted to the exhaust manifold to heat the area right under the carburetor.

This is ancient technology. Nissan carbureted and fuel injected Z cars had a coolant passageway in the intake and a winter summer flap on the air cleaner (carburetors). Switch the flap and feel the air cleaner housing get hot to the touch. Leave the flap in summer position when it got cold and you had the mother of all hesitation to the point of a stall. Good for pulling out in busy intersections, but we have forgotten about those scenarios with fuel injection.

As I said better fuel atomization has always been a product of warmer air and fuel as it was atomized. The changes in fuel delivery systems can help, but that does not change the physics of the fact that if you want power with no regard to economy, delivery of cold air and a lot of fuel, economy requires the best possible atomization of the fuel.

The latest step is direct injection at very high pressures, where the fuel is highly atomized by using pressures 50 times higher than 30 years ago. Fuel injected directly into the combustion chamber can absorb the heat to further atomize.

Next step is a homogenized mixture, that can be ignited by compression alone, like a diesel. Perfect distribution of the fuel and air molecules, means the potential reduction in emissions could render catalytic converters and other after combustion treatments of exhaust gasses.

UNNECESSARY.

regards
gary
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