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Old 03-06-2006, 01:09 PM   #51
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PIB and ECUs

PIB has a very interesting history behind it. Does anyone care to hear about it?

As for the ECU, I guess I will have to get some Torco GP7 and see for myself. My theory if it does turn out to be the case is that the ECU is designed to meet cafe standards for fuel that gets really bad mileage like the winter fuel you talk about.

It targets gasoline that can just barely meet the necessary standard. What it does is adjust the levels of oxygen needed to squeeze out those extra miles. So basically what it does it use a trial and error method to arrive at the specified mileage. When it hits on a sequence of firing and oxygenate content that gives that mileage, it adjusts to run that way until another fuel is added. It also memorizes the fuel sequence so if you get gas from different dealers, it first tries the sequences that worked in the past.

So if this theory proves out, which I hope it does not, when PIB is added, the ECU operates in reverse by moving around the ignition system until it drives down the mileage to the specific standard rather than leaving it alone. I am not sure about any of this. It is hard to get straight answers out of people who know but what a government expert told me was that even if PIB were added to all gasoline, that a lot of cars computer systems would make it work in reverse.

PIB turns gasoline into dynamite. It does not need the extra high oxygen mixture. It explodes to find the oxygen, which it doesn't find because the explosion is turned into power first. PIB is mixed with gasoline to make some kinds of explosives. Gasoline without it is like a limp dick. It needs oxygen to make it burn at a high rate rather than explode. PIB is like ******. But a system that is designed to make the most out of weak fuel might give PIB trouble.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:55 PM   #52
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jangeo, would you expect

jangeo, would you expect your mileage to improve as your engine/drivetrain gets broken in anyway? (not to throw cold water on your tests - just wondering.)

is that even an issue anymore (break-in periods)? if so, i wonder how long it takes.

this may be affecting me also, since my car is just at 6500 km (4000 mi.)
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:37 PM   #53
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breakin

Yeah there should be some improvement as it breaks in but I am well beyond the EPA estimates of 30-33 and I have not even added the PTFE additives yet - come on warm weather!! Got to crawl under the 6 inch high front end to get to the tranny fill plug first off and then after the next oil change at 3750 miles (at 2445 miles now) I add the engine treatment. The Ride out to the Cape I did about half an hour at 30-40 mph and that should have resulted in some really good MPG readings but it did not and I did not add any Acetone to that tank of gas. It lowered my average and I even had some tail winds going there - tried to add the Acetone on the cape but could not get any fuel up the syphen hose to mix it with and it was COLD out there - plastic PVC hose got too stiff to go down the filler pipe.
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:20 AM   #54
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On ECU decreasing engine performance gained with PIB

I went to the website - GTATech.com - which is the home base of Professor Waters who fond that PIB had these properties in gasoline. They claim that there is no loss of performance from the engine analyzing fuel and making adjustments, that if there are any, it will correct them quickly except perhaps on a few vehicles.

They also claim that it will sustain the positive properties even after PIB is no longer added to the fuel for a few tanks. This is because it sticks to everything in the system, building up slightly but only enough to protect parts and increase performance through easier flow and less fuel sticking to the sides of the piston chamber. It actually takes a few tanks to get this effect which you should notice more performance enhancement until it is coated and then it will last for a few tanks after stopping using it.

So if you are measuring before and after results, be sure to understand that it will stay in the system for a considerable time after terminating usage. There is a lot of information at this site that you will find useful, tests and results, testimonials, science etc.


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Old 03-20-2006, 10:03 AM   #55
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GTAT

Hi guys. Just thought I would chime in and let you know that I am about to do a long-term study of the GTAT fuel additive over the next several months. I ordered a bottle last night and hope to get started with my next fillup in a week or so. At the moment I'm planning to do 3 or 4 cycles of 2-3 tanks with followed by 2-3 tanks without. (That should take 4-5 months at the rate I consume fuel.) That bit about the additive "staying in the system" is a bit troublesome but I don't think that it's too much of a concern. If the theory that they are pitching is really valid, the real benefits come from the solute PIB influencing droplet formation. That would require it to be in the fuel, not on fuel system parts. I've been wrong before, though. Time will tell!
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:00 AM   #56
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Re: GTAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick
Hi guys. Just thought I would chime in and let you know that I am about to do a long-term study of the GTAT fuel additive over the next several months. I ordered a bottle last night and hope to get started with my next fillup in a week or so. At the moment I'm planning to do 3 or 4 cycles of 2-3 tanks with followed by 2-3 tanks without. (That should take 4-5 months at the rate I consume fuel.) That bit about the additive "staying in the system" is a bit troublesome but I don't think that it's too much of a concern. If the theory that they are pitching is really valid, the real benefits come from the solute PIB influencing droplet formation. That would require it to be in the fuel, not on fuel system parts. I've been wrong before, though. Time will tell!
Welcome Brick. If you wouldn't mind, please start a new thread in the experiments section so that you can log your progress. When you're done we can post results so future visitors can see if it actually works or not.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:32 AM   #57
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Sure thing. I'll start a

Sure thing. I'll start a thread once I begin to get some numbers.
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:29 PM   #58
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Pib

PIB is a common detergent used to clean fuel injectors and valves. There are several producers of PIB, each of which has thier own small chemical modification. Having motor oil as the carrier is probably not the best way to get the additive into your gas since it will burn in the combustion chamber and leave deposits which can cause knocking. You can find PIB in STP gas treatment and fuel injector cleaner. Gumout also uses this chemistry.

If you want to clean the entire fuel system, you need PEA chemistry. This is found in STP complete fuel system cleaner or Techron Fuel system cleaner.

There are some products that have little or no detergent in them like Lucas upper cylinder lubricant with fuel injector cleaner or Sea Foam. The Lucas product is oil with some viscosity improver and Sea Foam is a mix of rubbing alcohol, mineral oil, and kerosene.

Hope this helps you find something that will really work.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:19 AM   #59
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PIB (polyisobutylene) is a synthetic rubber? When used in gas to increase mpg a high molecular weight PIB is used...like gum rubber dissolved in lacquer thinner. Read the patent?
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:20 AM   #60
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I'ye yoosta drink Pib on occasion,,,,,,,,, don't see it anymore.
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