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Old 01-24-2007, 05:12 PM   #1
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Plasma Coating & MPG Revisted

Last week I had introduced the idea of plasma coating the internal components of an already fuel efficient engine,for even better fuel economy.
Since that time, a lot of people on this post had chimmed in their suggestions, so I decided to research to most prevelent three: 1) Cryo-Engine treatment 2) Teflon Impregnation 3) and of course, Plasma Coating.

As a personal disclaimer, what I intend to report consists of a general discriptions from a consumers point of view. I am by no means an expert, nor am I trying to persuade anyone to pursue these processes in any way. If anyone is at all interested, then I would suggest that you do your own research as well.


A lot of the discussion revolved around speculations regarding both cost and performance output. Bearing all that in mind, I took it upon myself to do a little research, by calling each respective company that performs the above mentioned treatments. For the sake of this post, I will give a summarized description of each procces:

Cryo-Engine Treament:

This is the process of taking individual engine components, and exposing them to sub-zero temperatures. According to the research that I was able to find, it consists of a "Dry Process" where liquid nitrogen is converted in a gas, where the parts are then expossed to cold temperatures around -300F.

The parts are cooled slowly and left in for an extended period of time. The effect that the deep cold has upon the part, causes the molecules within the metal to unify more so in their aligment. In short, it makes the metal stronger than it was before, whereby creating sturdier engine parts with higher tolerences. The known overall effect is increased horse power, and perhaps increased fuel efficiency. (i.e. I was quoted maybe a 5% increase). The process is permanent & the cost is $425.00 for either a 3 or 4-cylinder. For more information, you can go to (www.300below.com) On a personal note, I can't quite see how this would create an increase in fuel efficiency, however, you would have an engine that would be near indestructable. Additionally, you could however apply any of the above engine treaments to it.

The next engine treatment is Teflon Impregnation:

This process involves coating the pistons, cylinder heads, skirts bearing, etc. with a teflon coating. The process provides a slick material that coats directly to your engine components,reducing friction and galling, whereby increasing horse power. Unlike engine additives, this coating becomes "impregnated"into to your engine components(ergo the name). Once again, when asked if it would increase fuel efficency, I was granted a conservative maybe. The cost of this service is pending. I was told that the process was not permanent and would wear off in time. As to how long, could not be determined. For those interested, go to(www.emcprocess.com).

The last process is Plasma Coating:

The one thing to keep in mind is that there are many companies that use different materials to plasma coat an engine. Some use ceramic plasma coating, while others may use nickle or chromium. Still there are those that will say that it permanent, while there are other companies that state that it's not (i.e. at that's what I was told when I had called one company).
At any rate, the reasearch that I had included in my last post stated that their could be a 20-30% increase in engine performance. The cost for either a 3-4cylinder engine was $425.00, about the same as Cryo-Engine Treatment. For a complete listing of prices and services, visit www.swaintech.com
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:01 PM   #2
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So for all these treatments what exactly takes place? Is the engine as a whole dipped, frozen, or coated? Or is it specific pieces such as pistons, cylinder bores, crankshafts?
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:18 PM   #3
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PTFE impregnated anodization is a great way to make aluminum parts slide without galling, but I would have to recommend against using PTFE on any of the parts that see combustion, ie. the block, head and cylinders. PTFE is highly toxic at temperatures above 500°F. If you ever use Teflon grease, you'll see warnings to clean your hands before smoking, and burning a Teflon-coated pan is bad news for your health (I use stainless cookware at home).

It sounds like any of the processes require a tear-down so that parts which see sliding friction are treated. I doubt cryo would treat a complete engine without a teardown because of contaminants.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:43 PM   #4
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The Ceramic coating process is apparently done very well by a company in Hartford CT and they can do the combustion surfaces and inside and outside of header pipes. They are also the ONLY know company that can coat turbo impellers without getting them out of balance!

EMC coating is applied to the oil coated surfaces not the combustion surfaces however valve stems and guides can be done. They are the only company that can do piston rings. The thing about aluminum is that it really penetrates as much as .1 inches into the surface - after teflon treatment the surface is so slippery you can pretty much forget about it wearing off because there is so little friction and it penetrates into the metal both steel and aluminum. Also they can build up the surface or not at your option. Wrist pins that my brother did were so slippery that they were really hard to hold in your fingers without dropping them - dry. Transmission gears spin on dry shafts without binding and the rear end on my BMW motorcycle which is almost a worm gear (not centered on the crown) was so friction reduced that I could bump start it in first gear without rear wheel locking up. I can also shift the gearbox on the center stand with my little finger.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:02 PM   #5
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"molecules aligning" to make parts harder sounds like dimensional stability could be lost; any increased horsepower claim related to that is dubious.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:44 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=Red;38702]So for all these treatments what exactly takes place? Is the engine as a whole dipped, frozen, or coated? Or is it specific pieces such as pistons, cylinder bores, crankshafts?[/QUOTE

Regarding Cyro-engine Treatment, virtually any metal component can be treated from what I've been told. The most interesting fact is that this process is not just limited to engine components. Transmissions, (i.e. cost $125.00) gear box components, differentials brake rotors etc. can be cryo'd as well. However it would require you to disassemble your engine or transmission prior to having it treated. For the record though, this is not a new process. The folks at NASCAR have been doing this for years.

With Plasma Coating, pistions, cylinder bores, connecting rods, crank shaft, valvesprings, intake manifolds or any other part of the engine that sees high friction and movement can be treated. You can go to (www.swaintech.com) for a more complete description. Once again, all three processes require having your engine broken down into seperate components, prior to having it treated.
You can also go to (http://www.iom3.org/divisions/automo...6ses3pres2.pdf) and read an abstract on the efficacy of this process.

Finally, with regards to Teflon Impregnation, I'm still waiting to hear from EMC for more details.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
PTFE impregnated anodization is a great way to make aluminum parts slide without galling, but I would have to recommend against using PTFE on any of the parts that see combustion, ie. the block, head and cylinders. PTFE is highly toxic at temperatures above 500?F. If you ever use Teflon grease, you'll see warnings to clean your hands before smoking, and burning a Teflon-coated pan is bad news for your health (I use stainless cookware at home).

It sounds like any of the processes require a tear-down so that parts which see sliding friction are treated. I doubt cryo would treat a complete engine without a teardown because of contaminants.
You are right, it would not. Infact, all three processes would require a complete tear down.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
The Ceramic coating process is apparently done very well by a company in Hartford CT and they can do the combustion surfaces and inside and outside of header pipes. They are also the ONLY know company that can coat turbo impellers without getting them out of balance!

EMC coating is applied to the oil coated surfaces not the combustion surfaces however valve stems and guides can be done. They are the only company that can do piston rings. The thing about aluminum is that it really penetrates as much as .1 inches into the surface - after teflon treatment the surface is so slippery you can pretty much forget about it wearing off because there is so little friction and it penetrates into the metal both steel and aluminum. Also they can build up the surface or not at your option. Wrist pins that my brother did were so slippery that they were really hard to hold in your fingers without dropping them - dry. Transmission gears spin on dry shafts without binding and the rear end on my BMW motorcycle which is almost a worm gear (not centered on the crown) was so friction reduced that I could bump start it in first gear without rear wheel locking up. I can also shift the gearbox on the center stand with my little finger.
Actually Jan Geo, you are the person who'd inspiried me to research this process. The details of your experience would be quite valuable, whereas I'm sure that most people would be very interested to hear more about it. Also, what is the name of the Ceramic Coating Process that's done in Hartford CT.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
"molecules aligning" to make parts harder sounds like dimensional stability could be lost; any increased horsepower claim related to that is dubious.
a few years back I read all the web sites that I could find on the cryo-treatment, then I talked to a number of freidns who had messed around with liquid nitrogen in collage, and they all agreeded that it would have a possitive affect (as long as your engine was broken in first), that parts would wear less, and that bearings would have less give, thus rolling with less resistance.
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:04 AM   #10
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Yeah but if the molecules realign, giving a more dense/stronger product (seems possible), why would the item remain the exact same size/shape? Just to give you an idea, the titanium con rod of an F-1 engine at 19,000 rpm stretches 1 mm on each revolution. metal is not a crystal, more if a plastic in behaviouyr really.

So I ask again, how do we know that the dimensions themselves don't alter, if the material itself changes density?

Also, this would be a losing prospect in the battle of diminshing returns, if the engine does not require a teardown to begin with.
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