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Old 01-04-2010, 02:32 PM   #11
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The problem is, you can google anything and get results. The plain truth of the matter is, it may work, but gasoline is by far cheaper than platinum. I can't see how it can be economical. When I was younger & stupider I fell prey to several of these ploys. I spent money on the "tornado" that is put in your air intake. I bought the fuel line magnets. I bought splitfire spark plugs . I bought numerous additives. None of them increased the mileage, and many of them decreased it. They all successfully did one thing though. Made money for the people selling them. I'm not the only one here with those experiences, so please be kind to those who are skeptical about another "miracle" additive or device.

Oh, and here's what the EPA says about the device:

Quote:
Testing by EPA:
A detailed report of the testing performed by the EPA is
given in EPA report, EPA-AA-TEB-91-2, ?Emissions and Fuel
Economy Effects of the Platinum Gasaver, a Retrofit
Device? provided as Attachment A. A brief description of,
this testing effort is given below:
?Three typical vehicles were tested at EPA?s Motor
Vehicle Emission Laboratory. The basic test sequence
included 2,000 miles of mileage accumulation, replicate
Federal Test Procedures (FTP) and replicate Highway Fuel
Economy Tests (HFET). This test sequence was conducted
both without and with the Platinum Gasaver installed.?
7. Conclusion:
?The overall conclusion from these tests is that the
Platinum Gasaver did not significantly change vehicle
emissions or fuel economy for either the FTP or HFET.
device clearly did not produce the large -- greater than
20 percent -- fuel economy benefits claimed by the
manufacturer. Therefore, users of the device would not be
expected to realize either an emission or fuel economy
benefit. Vehicle operation and performance were unchanged
by the device?.
5
The full EPA report on the device is available here: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/devices/pb92104413.pdf
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:38 PM   #12
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Following information comes from this link.

For answers, we sought expert opinion. The federal government's Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has tested nearly 100 "fuel savers" over the years and found no significant improvement in fuel economy with any additive or device, according to tests posted on its website, www.epa.gov

Consumer Reports (CR), an independent, consumer-oriented testing firm, also evaluated myriad devices. We spoke with David Champion, senior director of CR's Auto Test Center, who said: "you can do more to improve fuel economy by the way you maintain and drive your vehicle then any of these ?gas savers' will ever achieve." Champion singled out the Platinum Gas Saver as typical of marketing hype.

The Platinum Gas Saver ($248 for two) is marketed by the National Fuelsaver Corp. and its ads claim up to 22 percent gains in economy. National Fuelsaver says that the product adds microscopic amounts on platinum to the air and fuel going to the engine, making the vehicle burn fuel more efficiently.

National Fuelsaver says the device may take up to 1,800 miles before it is fully effective, and you may have to advance engine timing or install new oxygen sensors for the system to work properly. According to CR, these actions alone may improve economy without purchasing any additional equipment.

In tests, Consumer Reports saw no improvement in economy after 500 miles of testing. They even replaced all four oxygen sensors in one of the test vehicles to the tune of $748, even though the vehicle was new and did not need sensor replacement. "Magnets, atomizers, vortex generators - none of them work, said Champion.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:38 AM   #13
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Research>

Quote:
Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
Actually, the ultimate in ignorance is shown by those who accept dubious claims without proof, and throw their money away. Check this link, and note the EPA found no measurable improvement from the Platinum Gassaver.
When taken to task about their(Federal Trade Commission) suit that Platinum Gas Saver was ineffective, here is the quote from Presiding Judge when awarding National Fuel Savers full court costs and handing down his ruling.

Federal Judge Walter J. Skinner, In his own words
"As the Associate Judicial Officer found, The Platinum Fuelsaver device is an effective fuel saving device and purchasers will in fact be receiving what they bargained for. "
Addressing the EPA testing is a much more complicated matter.

1. The EPA didn't allow sufficient mileage for the test vehicles to condition to the use of platinum.
2. The vehicles were final tested on a dyno which does not allow for road resonance through the front wheels to be figured into the equation. This is a clearly stated condition of the inventor in the patent application. Road resonance figures in to the efficient operation of the device to provide proper atomization of minute amounts of platinum to be picked up in the vacuum stream going to the intake manifold. Without that particular dynamic involved, tests are inconclusive and all derived data invalid. Period.
The amount of platinum involved in this process is minute and depends on road resonance to release it into the vacuum stream to the intake manifold. over 500,000 people have purchased this device and continue to purchase refill vials of platinum solution to replenish the supply. I can tell you it works, they can tell you it works. Bottom line you have to try one for yourself. If it works you keep it. If not you send it back and they refund your money. For every 60 dollar vial of solution I purchase,I net a savings of 700 dollars in fuel.
This company also sells an on board continuous oil refining system which eliminates oil changes to a minimum of 100,000 miles and ongoing continuous oil testing has proven this unit to a total of over a million miles without an oil change. Oil still tests out to within 2 to 4 percent of new. My first experience with this oil refiner in its early stages was in 1971 through 1989 running on a 223 cu. inch Ford 6 cylinder engine. The engine ran over 750,000 miles without an oil change, when torn down to replace a head gasket, the mains and inserts were checked and remained within factory operational specs. It doesn't get any better than that. As a result of my over forty years of experience with this technology I support it wholeheartedly and without reservation. Buy one try one, then write about your experience. What do you have to loose? Not your money thats for sure. Additionally, you credibility to cite personal experience is vindicated. Just make sure it is installed according to manufacturer's directions.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:11 AM   #14
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Donkey Show.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:09 PM   #15
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Donkey Show????????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetch View Post
Donkey Show.
please clarify, objectify and state cogent reasoned comment.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:05 PM   #16
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Fetch

Dear Fetch,
Please clarify and objectify from your implied station of elevated wisdom, as "Donkey Show" does not compute in this 61 year old's humble vernacular experience. Please provide a reasoned researched position on whether platinum catalyst assisted combustion in an internal combustion engine works, or not, based on either, in depth personal experience, or a properly crafted study conducted within the design parameters of the equipment involved. Such criteria would then insure that you are not entering a battle of wits only half prepared.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:32 PM   #17
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Two guys with a total of 6 posts between them come up touting a gas saver with questionable claims. My B.S. meter pegs.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeee View Post
The ultimate in ignorance is displayed by those who reject, out of hand, that which they know nothing about.
That being said, Google Platinum vapor fuel catalyst.
A catalytic process using the well known, proven properties of platinum to improve the complete burning of fuel.The Platinum Vapor Solution and device to apply the solution invented by a Mensa engineer back in the mid seventies to improve the combustion cycle of Oil fired boilers this worked very well, saving, sometimes over forty percent in heating bills for apartment houses along the Eastern Seaboard. Some other benefits recorded at that time were an attendant reduction of soot and harmful emissions from the exhaust stacks of the boiler fireboxes.. Being the enterprising engineer that he is, the inventor extended his invention to the combustion processes of the internal combustion engine. Yup fellers, when properly applied, works very well. Proper application is well covered and documented by the people holding the patents to this day.
You seem to like to use terms like "ignorance" to attack legitimate skepticism concerning claims that have been tested and refuted.

"If you don't like the message just kill the messenger", a simple form of propaganda, that may work on some folks, but to most of us it just becomes one of the hundreds of thousands of miracle fuel economy solutions.

But of course when scientific testing reveals no increase in efficiency, you must resort to justifying their lack of positive data with the essential component of success.

"Road resonance"

LOL, maybe if I intentionally imbalanced my tires, the increased "road resonance" would make my mileage improve.

Or I could just request that the state of Virginia make their roads crappier to increase the resonance to help my mileage.

"The ultimate in ignorance"

By your own definition, you should carefully follow my advice. Drive your car off a cliff, turn the engine off before you reach the point of becoming airborne.

Your mileage will be infinite. It doesn't get any better than that .

If you don't do it you are a moron !!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBBBEEEEELLLLLIIIIEEEEVVVVEEEE me!

regards
Gary
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:08 PM   #19
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Popeee: I take it that in the 2 hours between your posts, you looked up the meaning of the term "donkey show."

My thoughts were exactly what Sentra SE-R posted. It seems that when a new member (especially two new members) posts about a miracle fuel saver, it turns out that they are selling them. And most members of this site are not easily fooled.

The reason why you will not find a lot of hard evidence AGAINST such a device is that they are not tested by the government for validity of their claims. The EPA will test certain devices, and they found no measurable difference in the platinum device. Road resonance my foot. The drums on a dyno are turning, so there will be vibration and resonance from the tires (albeit less since the drums have less surface than a paved road). The engine vibrations will make just as much vibration as the road resonance, especially since the tires are dampened by the suspension.

Others are achieving 20 mpg in Tundra 4.7s with no mods. That's nothing special. No testing has proven the device works. It points towards the opposite. Why would I be an idiot to disbelieve their claims?

As far as the personal attack, I will let you know that I have 2 degrees, I'm working on my 3rd (masters), and I have a bit of mechanical experience. Even better, I have common sense.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:27 PM   #20
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this is fun and a good read.

I needed a good laugh on second monday.

another funny point is, why do some people assume that age automatically grants you respect? (BTW this is the internet, I can be any age I want to be). in that same sense, there are several things that don't automatically grant respect. Age, education, patents, time on this site, time in the industry. there are some things that do EARN respect.

-actual experimentation and not empty claims
-being able to admit that you could be wrong (trust me, crow taste bad to everyone)
-the ability to have a civil conversation with someone with differing views.
-actually participating in the forum in which you are trying to convince of your claims (gas logs are wonderful tools)

there may be more but it is getting late. I am an educated man (though not as educated as some) and though I am not a retired man, nor am I a teen that knows nothing about life either. my uncle is actually a master mechanic (though that doesn't entitle me to anything either). I have learned that idiots come in all ages and education levels...and so do geniuses. one of the most intellegent people I know (especially when it comes to cars) is 30 years old and has tore down and rebuilt more cars than I will ever own in my lifetime. ironically, I met him in college when we were both 18 years old. his knowledge base has grown since then but his overall view of things has not. sometimes age truly has nothing to do with it.

happy second monday everyone.

*edit*
on the issue of respect, there are several people on this site that have earned my respect (though it may not mean much) because of what they have achieved and their conversations with myself and others. a few have posted on this thread already. I remember when I was a noob and knew very little about driving for efficiency. it was an interesting road to lead me to where I am today and it didn't happen by someone convincing me of a product that I must buy to believe (and if it didn't perform as promised, I would have to deal with their returns department). respect is a funny thing, you have to give a little before you receive a little usually. not a lot, just a little. once someone disrespects a person, it is a hard climb back to that trust where the little respect is given again.

hopefully this won't be third monday
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