Poll: Adopt the EPA's "New" FE Figures?

[DRW]

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

If the new set of measurements set to replace the old set has the same inherent flaws as the old set, and if changing the standards by which these measures are conducted will cause further confusion, why even bother to make the change?

The 'inherent flaw' of the old epa numbers was that it didn't accurately reflect real-world mpg. The epa made the changes to reflect real-world driving more accurately.

I'm voting yes simply because we need one standard to gage our mileage. It seems that the epa has come up with a slightly more accurate standard. Lukily we look even better with the new numbers.

On a side note, I'm also glad to see the epa lower the mpg rating of all vehicles. Most of the people I ask don't really know how many mpg they're getting. They just have a vague recollection of their epa rating. If only they really knew how bad their mileage was, they might do something about it.

OTOH, since small efficient vehicles take a bigger hit with the new system, new car buyers might not see the point in shoping for a car with better FE. They might think, 'is it worth it for just a few more mpg?' Maybe this is the US gov'ts way of leveling the playing field in favor of US automakers? Could this be played into a win-win situation? i.e. sell more american cars because it's not worth it to buy hybrid technology so just buy the car you want. Then simply drive it better since driving habits play a biger role in actual FE. I can see how it gives a nice ego boost to have a moderatly rated car and drive it high above it's epa rating. It's a personal accomplishment. FE could become the new eco-cool game among trendy yuppies!

:wakes from the dream:

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

If the new set of measurements set to replace the old set has the same inherent flaws as the old set, and if changing the standards by which these measures are conducted will cause further confusion, why even bother to make the change?

IMHO, the only reason to bother at all is to make it fair when comparing to newer vehicles. a 2008 Honda Fit with a combined EPA of 31 will always score much higher than my 2007 with a combined of 35. Even though they are the same car in every way, the 2008 model will always score better in the "percentage above EPA" and hypermiler status.

For that reason alone I think it's a good idea to change to the new numbers.

[red91sit]

I quite agree, the epa estimates are really a personal thing, if you want you can jack yours up to the old standards it's not goign to hurt anyone. Heck, you could set your combined to say 30, and try to achieve that, that way you'll have a little line showing your goal.

As far as the Top Ten list goes, I still feel we should definetly be using the new standards. It's the only way to keep everything fair and honest.

[Peakster]

So basically we need someone with authority to declare "Attention everyone: these are the EPA estimates we're going to use. It's just the way it's going to be. And if you don't like it, too bad" . Everyone is really all over the place right now in their EPA entries. I'm not going to cry my little eyes out if the decision is one way or another, I just want this debate done! So what's it gonna be ?

[skewbe]

I'm switching. The playing field will be a tiny bit more level (by whatever percentage they reduced the numbers). Still it is a LOOONG way from level, but the flaws in the epa calculations are many and apparently beyond comprehension, so long live the king

[rh77]

Originally Posted by Peakster

So basically we need someone with authority to declare "Attention everyone: these are the EPA estimates we're going to use. It's just the way it's going to be. And if you don't like it, too bad"

That's essentially the point of the post and poll. A discussion was needed with a vote to see where people stand.

To keep the spirit of competition among members, a consistent set of values needs to be adopted. I'm not breaking any records with my 30mpg guzzlers, so it doesn't matter to me personally, but Scientifically, using the same measuring stick to compare 2 items is essential.

RH77

[Matt Timion]

Let it be known...

We will be switching to the new standard, but it will not be enforced until I have programmed a viable way to select these values from the EPA database. It will probably take me an afternoon of coding to get it done. The next few days will be a sort of limbo I guess.

When the switch is official, I will be removing EVERYONE's EPA values from the garage. This is because there is no way for me to know who changed their values to the new ones. I will also send an email to everyone reminding them to enter the new EPA values.

[CO ZX2]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Let it be known...

We will be switching to the new standard, but it will not be enforced until I have programmed a viable way to select these values from the EPA database. It will probably take me an afternoon of coding to get it done. The next few days will be a sort of limbo I guess.

When the switch is official, I will be removing EVERYONE's EPA values from the garage. This is because there is no way for me to know who changed their values to the new ones. I will also send an email to everyone reminding them to enter the new EPA values.

Matt, I believe we are getting sucked in on this one. These are not the official EPA numbers at this time. These are not the ratings shown when you go the standard EPA fuel economy site. I believe the car manufacturers have put pressure on EPA to change the older car ratings. Why else would they change them?

My thought is that when car buyers start thinking and talking of gas mileage, invariably the mention of "what happened to the Geos rated at 58 MPG, what happened to the 50+ MPG Hondas" comes up. "Why don't they have better MPG cars now instead of worse?" If the new estimates do become official ratings, people won't even be able to find the original ratings for the good mileage rated cars they thought they remembered.

Just what the car manufacturers would like, (the mushroom syndrome: They keep you in the dark and they feed you only crap).

I have not researched but comments I have read would lead me to believe that other FE sites have much reservation about this issue. I just hope that the decision to change at Gassavers will not diminish the excellent esteem that the GS site enjoys. And the members along with it.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by CO ZX2

I have not researched but comments I have read would lead me to believe that other FE sites have much reservation about this issue. I just hope that the decision to change at Gassavers will not diminish the excellent esteem that the GS site enjoys. And the members along with it.

I propose researching it further using the links provided. The change is based on Scientific merit due to the use of:

1. Air Conditioning
2. Higher Cruising Speeds with quicker acceleration (both 'City' and 'Highway')
3. and Cold Weather Usage

RH77

[CO ZX2]

Originally Posted by rh77

I propose researching it further using the links provided. The change is based on Scientific merit due to the use of:

1. Air Conditioning
2. Higher Cruising Speeds with quicker acceleration (both 'City' and 'Highway')
3. and Cold Weather Usage

RH77

I did research the reasons EPA cited as above. What does this have to do with researching whether other FE sites are changing or not? Or whether these are truly official EPA ratings?

Did you read the rest of my reply??