Poll: Adopt the EPA's "New" FE Figures?

[Peakster]

Originally Posted by cfg83

There should also be a special "top ten" gold star for people that are in the top ten list. It could be in same location as the red and blue stars.

I've always wondered, what do the blue and red stars mean anyways?

[ELF]

I vote yes for the new ones. Just so everyone is on the same level.
The new estimates are more accurate for some vehicles, less so for others, but we all need to be on the same page.

[cfg83]

skewbe -

Originally Posted by skewbe

Problem #1, *deleted*

Problem #2, *deleted*

Problem #3, The new figures come up short for accounting for variances in local terrain, traffic, length of commute, average temperature, average local fuel quality, local atmoshpheric pressure, etc. etc.

I know, .... but see below ....

Problem #4, EPA is a USA thing. The web is not.

Yes, but I will repeat Matt's statement, this is "GasSavers.org". We need a way to measure savings of gallons of gas, so we need a standard. Imperfect as it is, the USA standard is the one used by the (current) majority of users on this website. Translating the EPA of non-USA countries to this standard will be one of our "interesting burdens".

I wish there was an easy way for you to take advantage of the "new EPA" input mechanism that would help user's to identify old/new EPA numbers. I want both worlds. An easy EPA extraction method for the user and not too much work for the programmers.

Problem #5, *deleted*

Problem #6, (revised) It seems that some vehicles may never be fairly compared with others. I really think we should take the vehicle make/model out of the comparison since the epa accuracy varies greatly from vehicle to vehicle.

, I don't understand. The Make/Model out of the Garage? Can you expand this statement? The Make/Model is a starting point that gives everyone, old and new, a point of reference. I think the Make/Model is important because it helps us to know the drivetrain of each car and help each other with things we know or have learned.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I want to hear what other people think? Is there no value in doing a golf/bracket racing type comparison where people are given a "handicap" based on their personal performance compared to the group?

I already do this. I know my Saturn tires are one size too small, so I add one MPG to my "combined EPA" in my car. This makes it harder for me to reach Hypermiler status, but it is "clean" in my mind becuase I know my odometer is reporting more miles than I am actually driving.

I think a handicap would have to be voluntary and explicit. There would have to be another entry below the "combined EPA" that is called "handicap" and explains what it is for. A new user would be told to enter "0" for now and come back later to change that is he/she wanted to.

At this point the voting implies that we are going to adopt the new EPA standard. I would like the ability to "project old school" calculations, either from extrapolation or from real user input. If only on the Garage page, this information would still be useful.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

Peakster -

Originally Posted by Peakster

I've always wondered, what do the blue and red stars mean anyways?

$20 contribution get's you a Red Star, $40 or $50 gets you a blue star.

CarloSW2

[zpiloto]

Here's a thought just to be different. Since there are no 2008 models in the garage and 99.9 percent won't be 2008. Leave the old numbers and since the new value are not even tested but just a percetage of the new, just handicap 2008 that percent to match the old numbers. Then you can see if the EPA does anything offical with the old ones. That will give you some time before anything really needs to be done.

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by cfg83

skewbe -


, I don't understand. The Make/Model out of the Garage? Can you expand this statement? The Make/Model is a starting point that gives everyone, old and new, a point of reference.

The problem is that the EPA figure is arbitrary, it gives some models an advantage on the "hypermiler" comparisons. Not every car performs best FE wise on the epa test, aerodynamics are just a guess, there's lots of issues with the epa testing.

If you want to level the playing field for something other than a raw mpg comparison, you cannot assume that the epa ratings are a level starting point.

Any handicaps should be computable based solely on the existing gaslogs.

[GasSavers_Red]

Originally Posted by skewbe

The problem is that the EPA figure is arbitrary, it gives some models an advantage on the "hypermiler" comparisons. Not every car performs best FE wise on the epa test, aerodynamics are just a guess, there's lots of issues with the epa testing.

If you want to level the playing field for something other than a raw mpg comparison, you cannot assume that the epa ratings are a level starting point.

Any handicaps should be computable based solely on the existing gaslogs.

So if gaslogs were used what would be a baseline to compare to?

[rh77]

Originally Posted by Red

So if gaslogs were used what would be a baseline to compare to?

Exactly, here's the problem:

1. We need a Universal standard of commonly accepted FE Estimates -- this comes from the EPA. Most of the general public (in the U.S.) looks to this agency for said values.
2. If you're a new member, that baseline may not have been generated, or accurate
3. 2008 Model-Year vehicles will have an advantage over previous years

Food for thought...

RH77

[The Toecutter]

By your explanation, your no vote seems to have nothing to do with the question that's actually being asked. Rick is not asking if we like the EPA or not, he's asking which set of values should be used...

If the new set of measurements set to replace the old set has the same inherent flaws as the old set, and if changing the standards by which these measures are conducted will cause further confusion, why even bother to make the change?

[skewbe]

It isn't rocket science, anyone who can comprehend how a golf handicaps works should understand the concept, only this would be a bit more dynamic. You don't get an actual "handicap" number, just a ranking of how you are doing recently (say 90 days) over how you did over, say, the last year.

newcomers are basically 1:1 until they get some history.

Folks who have been around for a year or more can do a year over year comparison as well (seperate report) to help absorb seasonal variances and not give the aussies too much of an advantage in the winter