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Old 12-19-2008, 02:43 PM   #31
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We're getting a little socialist now about this now too. That didn't work during the Depression except to extend it. It hasn't been anything that has made the US solid, but it has reduced our capacity to stay ahead. We're just continuing down the road equalizing with the rest of the world.

As for the "government" running a business? Right. The Tesla guy seems pretty bright, and how many cars has he put on the road. I'm sure someone like Barney Frank would do so much better.

God help us all.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:44 PM   #32
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We would be paying one way or another. If GM and Chrysler were to go under there would be up to 3 million lost jobs, not just the UAW, suppliers, truck drivers, the company that makes the little clips for windshield washer fluid etc. That would be a loss of income for the governmet via payroll taxes. We are a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer and if we were to lose the new car end of the business we would have to cut our staff in half because of lost income from new car sales, warranty work, and parts and accessories, that equals higher unemployment and more loss of income for the government via taxes etc. The way the bailout is structured GM and Chrysler have to show a feasable plan by the end of march or repay the money. If they are unable to repay the money I'm sure the government will sieze the companies assests and factories and maybe even try to run the business themselves and then you will have what you want, failure of the company.
The whole idea of throwing billions at a poorly managed business is still not right. If they don't find a way to build decent fuel efficient cars, they will fail anyway. There just doesn't seem to be no easy way out of this mess.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:49 PM   #33
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The whole idea of throwing billions at a poorly managed business is still not right. If they don't find a way to build decent fuel efficient cars, they will fail anyway. There just doesn't seem to be no easy way out of this mess.
To succeed, they need to build cars that sell well, regardless of whether or not they are decent or fuel-efficient. They need to do it at a profit.

I don't think a year of high gas prices was their downfall, just the straw that broke the ailing camel's back.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:04 PM   #34
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To succeed, they need to build cars that sell well, regardless of whether or not they are decent or fuel-efficient. They need to do it at a profit.

I don't think a year of high gas prices was their downfall, just the straw that broke the ailing camel's back.
True. the only reason they've dropped, is because so many aren't working anymore, or buying gas. If our economy picks up, fuel prices will go up again.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:19 PM   #35
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I'm sorry, but Ford and Chevy actually sell a lot more trucks than a lot of the others sell combinations of vehicles, and it's ridiculous that this is brought up as "part of their problem".

They don't have a problem with what they sell. If one doesn't like their offering, don't buy what they have. They have an overhead problem related to the cost of retirement, idle workers, and health care above and beyond anything normal. Similar to the melt down that will come to most cities, counties, states, and the federal government as wages don't keep up with the regular "cost of living" increases that plow workers, teachers, representatives, and the rest receive in the service of the "public good".

Adding a fuel efficient car that only some people will buy isn't going to even come close to the numbers of pick ups that they do actually sell. The Camry is still a long way off from the F150 and the Silverado.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:41 PM   #36
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funny you should talk about taxation. north carolina is looking at several options because of the lost tax revenue (funny how that works) from the decreased demand of gas.

one that is really out there is a 1/4th cent per mile tax to be paid at the end of each year. this is just a proposal but they want to get your odometer reading each year to compare to last years and tax you accordingly.

in the end, they are going to get there money. if it isn't in the price of a gallon of fuel, it will be somewhere.

I also hope to see the hydraulic hybrid some day. maybe there will be some even wilder ideas to come also.
The hydraulic hybrid is the future of all types of cars, even electric.

Electric cars are simply a different source of non reversible energy consumption.

Hydraulic-lectric cars are part of the plan, if your situation only requires limited range, then pure electric is fine, with hydraulic regeneration and powertrains to maximise the efficiency curve of the electric drive.

Power units can be interchangeable for city of highway situations or any combination. It's shortsighted thinking to believe any limited range pure electric vehicle is a practical solution, unless battery technology advances dramatically with ranges of 250 miles, and recharge times drop to less than an hour.

Even then battery costs are still way too high.

It's not that I am pro anything other than the simplest most robust powertrain that can be developed, with costs lower than conventional systems.

Its not the limited production high priced solution that we need. It's a simple powertrain, with regenerative capacity, that can be connected to any non reversible source of power generation.

Hydraulic hybrids can best be understood by looking at the EPA Ford Explorer prototype. The current EPA configuration is very bulky, and not practical for compact vehicles, much less even smaller vehicles. The current prototype Explorer is getting about 40 MPG combined. Future developments will make it cheaper to build and get 50 MPG easily.

Proposals are now being solicited for hydraulic hybrid Rickshaws, for high density city transportation, believe it or not.

How about a bicycle that you use as an exercise machine at home, then use the energy you saved while exercising to propel you to work the next day, up to several miles each way. I see human hydraulic electric hybrid vehicles in a very few years.

Heck they even pulse and glide motorgliders, power them up to 20 k alt and soar 80miles with no power required.

This revolution has just begun. In 50 years we will be looking back at todays cars about the same way we look at the air pollution in London in the 40's and 50's.

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Old 12-19-2008, 04:51 PM   #37
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Proposals are now being solicited for hydraulic hybrid Rickshaws, for high density city transportation, believe it or not.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:21 PM   #38
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Google

"Green Car Congress"

Go to the archives for November 6, 2008 posting.

Then maybe you will believe it old man .

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Old 12-19-2008, 06:21 PM   #39
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I've also noticed the drop off in posts since gas prices have fell. I still drop by about everyday to see if there are new posts and if there are I'll do some reading and maybe make a post otherwise I usually just pass on through.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:34 PM   #40
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Is it me or is this place like a ghost town because of sub $2 gas?
I dunno...this thread has 38 responses so far...

As for myself, busy, nothing much to add to what has already been said, and a long "Honey do" list...
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