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Old 07-09-2007, 07:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Blue03Civic View Post
I think it's nice except it needs smaller, less rapper-mobile like wheels, rear wheelskirts, a shorter wheelbase and a smaller height. A wipers fairing may be nice as well, so they aren't exposed when off... Less frontal area and weight might be able to bring it up to insight-like mileage, so a more rounded front may be in order, and a slight boat-tail may help even more. It's supposed to be a radically different vehicle than anything else on the market, and should be more effecient, not following the trends to look like a rapper-mobile. It might actually be worth the extra dough over say, a Yaris (which is almost as effecient as the Prius when you take it all into consideration) If they put more thought into it...
Most people don't put that consideration into buying a new car. So, more corners cut, cheaper production...
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:27 PM   #12
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It wouldn't be more insight-like mileage blue03. It would take A LOT more work to make that jump in a larger 4 door without integrating hypermiling type advantages.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:28 PM   #13
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I thought that Prius was looking to get its own car line. As in, Toyota was thinking about making a new brand like Scion. It would have at least 3 different versions of the Prius. I think I read this on www.thetorquereport.com. Anyways, the pic that the OP has of the 2009 Prius makes it look a bit more aerodynamic. Just a shame that the wheels are getting bigger. Keep in mind though, people like us are the minority. Most people want bigger shinier wheels. They would NEVER cover aluminum wheels with skirts, and the bigger the better is the rule.

I am waiting for nice clean diesels to roll in. Great fuel economy right off the bat, good acceleration, the opportunity to make your own fuel, and lower greenhouse gas emissions. The list goes on. Give me a GOOD hybrid system based on diesel and we are really gonna be talking!!
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:09 AM   #14
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I couldn't agree more with you on the fact that we need a good diesel hybrid system. We need more diesels in this country, period. But I doubt America and the oil companies would allow it, because a diesel hybrid could probably exceed 80mpg (hell, diesel cars such as Jetta TDIs exceed 50 regularly) with no problem and people would have the opportunity to make their own fuel. Had I a ton of money, I would like to snatch up an insight and drop a diesel in it. Diesel+Hybrid+CVT+aerodynamics would probably be an amazing combination for good FE.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:30 AM   #15
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Japan may get those big wheels, but in the US we will get something with a bigger sidewall and lower RR.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:24 AM   #16
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Hello -

I read that there would be Prius "A, B, and C" models. That would imply smaller to bigger models to me.

I just wish I could remember where I read this.

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Old 07-10-2007, 12:09 PM   #17
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I can answer the height thing. I put a 2 inch body lift on my S15 to accommodate new, more comfortable seats (required a new, flatter floor pan than the factory S10 seats). The truck felt a lot more safe and secure after I put the lift on, before I did it the truck felt tiny. Boosting the height just 2 inches made it feel like a truck instead of a toy. My wife even feels safer in it after the lift. Cars that are low to the ground feel like go-karts, not something you are going to want to be in when the vehicle to the front, rear and sides are all full size SUVs. A taller vehicle is going to feel safer than a shorter vehicle because of this go-cart effect.

A diesel electric hybrid is easily built, all you need is a car, an electric motor strong enough to accelerate the car from 0-60 in at least 16 seconds, able to maintain 80MPH for more than an hour without melting down, a generator able to supply 20 percent more power than the vehicle needs at max speed with all systems in operation, and a small engine (diesel or gasoline) able to run the generator at the prescribed RPM with the full load on. A 1 liter tractor diesel engine would be plenty to run any generator selected for in-car use, and the cam could be optimized for the engine to run the motor. Couple this with a heat pump for HVAC and some extra batteries, an electric vacuum pump to keep the brake master cylinder drawn down, and a manual rack for steering, and you could set up an autocontroller that would keep track of battery power and just run the generator when needed. Wouldn't take that much either. I present the diesel electric train as a perfect example, one engine can pull 100 or more fully loaded train cars, which normally hold 80-100 tons of material each. The size of the diesel electric motor combo for something as small as a car would be tiny and extremely efficient by comparison. Such a setup could also be set up as an overnight plug-in hybrid, AND the hood and roof could be lined with solar cells to help reduce the amount of time the diesel actually has to run.

I figure that a man could build such a beast for about 25 grand, maybe 30 grand at most, using an older vehicle to convert. And that's a max amount needed, could probably do it for a lot less. Gensets go for around 6-8 grand new, and they are powerful enough to run a house, and electric motors strong enough to be put into drag cars go for around 6 grand new. A mid-70s Chevy Nova would be a perfect car for this job, has a huge engine bay and a tranny tunnel to hold the drive motor.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue03Civic View Post
I think it's nice except it needs smaller, less rapper-mobile like wheels, rear wheelskirts, a shorter wheelbase and a smaller height. A wipers fairing may be nice as well, so they aren't exposed when off... Less frontal area and weight might be able to bring it up to insight-like mileage, so a more rounded front may be in order, and a slight boat-tail may help even more. It's supposed to be a radically different vehicle than anything else on the market, and should be more effecient, not following the trends to look like a rapper-mobile. It might actually be worth the extra dough over say, a Yaris (which is almost as effecient as the Prius when you take it all into consideration) If they put more thought into it...
Actually folks, the car is expected to not only get 80+ MPG, but will also be plug in capable from the factory.
As far as the 'rapper' wheels as you call them, tiny wheels on cars make the car look weak.
In a sense it is the legs or shoulders of the car, with the grill and headlights being the 'face' of the car.
This is why that a Viper or Corvette look so tough and an economy car so weak.
With art and design, the first thing that you do when you go to draw a weak characters car is to shrink the wheels and increase the area of the windows. This makes the car look like it has big feminine 'eyes' when seen from the side. The tiny wheels make the car look wobbly as if it is walking on bird legs.
Sometimes you can even dramatise this by having the wheels slanted at a wobbly angle. You see this a lot in cartoons where the car is a 'clunker'. The wheels will shudder back and forth.
Back to the windows ( large windows vs. small ones ) Think of a chopped hot rod or a Chrysler 300 box car, or a Hummer. The windows are very short in height to give the car a menacing sort of a 'squint'.
Tinting the windows can have this effect too. Dark 'eyes' are menacing.

Most people just don't want to appear weak ( myself included. )
What T's me off is that the automakers continue to make fuel efficient cars "dorky" looking when they could easily style them better.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nerds laugh at me View Post
Actually folks, the car is expected to not only get 80+ MPG, but will also be plug in capable from the factory.
As far as the 'rapper' wheels as you call them, tiny wheels on cars make the car look weak.
In a sense it is the legs or shoulders of the car, with the grill and headlights being the 'face' of the car.
This is why that a Viper or Corvette look so tough and an economy car so weak.
With art and design, the first thing that you do when you go to draw a weak characters car is to shrink the wheels and increase the area of the windows. This makes the car look like it has big feminine 'eyes' when seen from the side. The tiny wheels make the car look wobbly as if it is walking on bird legs.
Sometimes you can even dramatise this by having the wheels slanted at a wobbly angle. You see this a lot in cartoons where the car is a 'clunker'. The wheels will shudder back and forth.
Back to the windows ( large windows vs. small ones ) Think of a chopped hot rod or a Chrysler 300 box car, or a Hummer. The windows are very short in height to give the car a menacing sort of a 'squint'.
Tinting the windows can have this effect too. Dark 'eyes' are menacing.
From a purist POV, the criticism is legitimate. But I do understand what you are talking about. If the wheels don't have a good proportion to the car, then they can diminish the aesthetics. IMO in the picture above, they could make the wheels smaller and still achieve a good proportion.

Quote:
Most people just don't want to appear weak ( myself included. )
What T's me off is that the automakers continue to make fuel efficient cars "dorky" looking when they could easily style them better.
That's one reason why I wish they offered their "cool coupes" with economy drivetrains. If you liked the styling, the Saturn SC1 coupe offered that. Maybe the closest we have right now is the Honda coupe with 30/38 MPG. That is why I would like to see a discontinued Toyota Celica on GasSavers, because the base model was 28/34 MPG. It would be cool if the Scion TC came with a Scion Xa/Xb basic drivetrain (it could also stand to lose some weight).

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Old 07-11-2007, 06:54 PM   #20
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Regarding the newly redigned Prius picture that I posted, I too dislike the wheels ( too large diameter ), but at least they don't ruin the sars proportions too much.

BTW, What do you folks think of my Photoshop job I did on the red car ?
I lowered the car, sectioned it ( lowered the beltline ) added another bodyline, and fixed up the taillights and spoiler some.
I think it look less like a mini minivan and more like a Lamorghini Diablo.
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