put water in gas for better fe? - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-13-2008, 08:57 PM   #1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 336
Country: United States
put water in gas for better fe?

http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=mserv


i just spent about 30 mins reading that, i think its total bs.

but if it really works im for it
__________________

civic94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 09:06 PM   #2
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,111
Country: United States
Send a message via AIM to dkjones96
Looks like electrolysis to me.

More often than not if you can read the words free energy without having to scroll it's pointless to scroll. I did anyways because I was thinking at first they were telling people how to mix water and gasoline in the tank and just had to try and read on.
__________________

__________________
- Kyle
dkjones96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 09:14 PM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 336
Country: United States
i really dont think water is combustable...
civic94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 09:42 PM   #4
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 409
Country: United States
Most gas has a bit of water in it anyways. Rainwater drains right in, or in worse cases, crooked owners squirt some water down the hole to make a quick buck. At anyrate, as long as it's pure water (distilled) it will actually do a bit of steam cleaning! and cool the combustion chamber a bit (usually a bad thing as far as F/E goes) as it's pretty inert through the combustion cycle, it does expand VERY quickly when heated, so I say if you can get an oil and a water to mix (water + gas) go for it! Or heck, I might first haha.
__________________
red91sit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 06:43 AM   #5
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_RoadWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,652
Looking over that site, it's another HHO system but...

The biggest problem with water in gas is that it doesn't mix with it, sinks to the bottom of the tank, freezes in the lines in cold weather and of course, if you pick up straight water in the line, it won't burn... If there was a way to keep water and gas mixed, it would be a pretty good thing to try. I had heard of some guy in the UK doing that. Think he used an emulsifier.

It's said that a third of the energy in gasoline goes into the engine in heat and gets dumped by the cooling system and another third goes out the exhaust pipe. If one could introduce enough water to suck up all that heat by expanding into steam in the combustion chamber before it gets wasted, then you'd have a motor that was much more efficient. Find an efficient way to do this and your 30mpg car gets 90mpg with the same power. (You'd be more likely to just double mpg though)

By the way, using straight alcohol as a fuel, no gasoline at all, one can use up to 15% water in that... heard of folks running old VW beetles on that. I think the problem with greater concentrations is that it won't burn violently enough. We could expect a similar problem with gasoline at a certain point. However, increasing compression ratio a lot could get more tolerance for water. Conversely it might be possible to mix more water with lower octane fuel.

Since getting it to stay in the fuel is a problem the logical thing is to introduce it seperately, water injection... this has mostly been pursued for more power, not less gas. Just misting down the intake has a limitation, in that all that one can do is displace air in the charge, ECUs might then see a "rich" condition and cut back the fuel a bit, but you're limited by the flexibility of the fuelling table. Hence low water useage amounts are typically recommended around 1/8 of the fuel. This is enough for chamber cooling for high power levels, as a detonation preventer, however that's not exactly what an mpger has in mind, so there's probably some more work possible on that.

I have an idea in mind for more effective water induction, however, I'm going to have to make some WAGs (Wild A$s Guesses) about induction flow in the vehicles I've got to play with, to try and make it work. Ideally, I would do a thorough analysis of flow dynamics and arrange things perfectly so it had the best chance of working, but I don't have that luxury available at the moment. It might in fact be impossible to do on Marvin, but Wile-E might be more amenable to it. There's a small number of motors out there that just might work extremely well for what I have in mind. While useful as a proof of concept, it's going to be a little unfortunate that not many vehicles will be at all suitable, and the ones that are will need careful modification, only a relative few might benefit without having head-work. Fortunately the head-work involved should have benefits without the water, so I shouldn't be screwing up Wile-E's head for nothing. While thinking about this, I got better insight into improving normal induction.

The good point about it though is that it might work in addition to other fuelling improvements, i.e. HHO, ozone, fuel cracking, gas additives, should still have further benefits.
__________________
I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
GasSavers_RoadWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2008, 12:04 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,460
Country: United States
Location: north east PA
Quote:
It's said that a third of the energy in gasoline goes into the engine in heat and gets dumped by the cooling system and another third goes out the exhaust pipe. If one could introduce enough water to suck up all that heat by expanding into steam in the combustion chamber before it gets wasted, then you'd have a motor that was much more efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crower_six_stroke
trollbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2008, 05:45 PM   #7
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 298
Country: United States
ALOT of people talk about putting water into gas. But the solubility of water in gas is actually REALLY small. I just can't see adding THAT much water to gas.
StorminMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008, 01:47 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15
Country: United States
Wouldn't running a water injection system be a better option? I know this is done on a turbo cars to lower intake temps...
Toyman321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008, 02:23 PM   #9
Registered Member
 
milesgallon.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 39
Country: United States
Toyman321 is right, water is good to improve performance, especially when you try to get the last couple of horsepowers squeezed out of an engine.

It cools the air allowing more air into the cylinder which means you can burn more fuel per stroke.

I have no idea if that is good for fuel economy but probably not.


The reason why electrolytic devices can't work is this:

Burn hydrogen and you get water + engergy
Hydrogen + Oxygen = Water + Energy

Electrolyse some water (water + energy) and you will get hydrogen.
Water + Energy = Hydrogen + Oxygen

The water as fuel machines just runs that process both ways.

First it uses water and energy (from the car electrical system which is produced by the engine) to produce hydrogen and oxygen.

It then feeds the hydrogen to the engine that converts the hydrogen back to water and energy.

Short: It uses the engine to produce fuel that is used by the engine, it's could be fun watching but it won't help your mpg.

It's plain old snake oil, too bad it's advertised all over gassavers, thanks to adsense.

Simon
__________________
Handy gas mileage and automotive calculators at MilesGallon.com lets you find out the real mpg of your vehicle, calculate the fuel consumption and cost for a trip and how about a tool that gives you the total cost per mile for a specifice vehicle over its lifetime.

milesgallon.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008, 09:53 PM   #10
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesgallon.com View Post
Toyman321 is right, water is good to improve performance, especially when you try to get the last couple of horsepowers squeezed out of an engine.

It cools the air allowing more air into the cylinder which means you can burn more fuel per stroke.
It also lowers the actual temp inside the cylinder during the burn, I suppose you could use this is you were trying to run the motor lean and still keep temps down?
__________________

Toyman321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
google+ integration? xchrislee Fuelly Web Support and Community News 3 07-15-2011 02:55 AM
Incorrect Milage Calcuatlion PatM Fuelly Web Support and Community News 4 07-17-2009 08:21 PM
More detail josh434 General Fuel Topics 2 06-28-2009 03:39 AM
Electric stbalbach General Fuel Topics 6 02-25-2009 09:56 PM
Moped/Scooter as Generic Makes Ichamb Fuelly Web Support and Community News 1 11-06-2008 05:45 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.