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Old 09-19-2009, 08:36 AM   #21
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Yeah white roof on a sunny day 80-90 degrees (10-20 above ambiant) - interior dashboard temps from sunlight shining through the windshield 130-160 degrees.

I see fuel consumption at idle for the heater fan about 0.02gph increase. I have a 160watt radio in my xB Factory stock so that loads down the engine a little too. Headlights 0.05 increase (0.15gph lights off 0.20gph lights on) the extra digit on the upgrade SGII really help nail the fuel usage.

Best way to test electrical load of the entire car which I will do some day is to connect a good 14 volt charger with amp meter to the battery to unload the alternator completely and see what the ECU and fuel pump and ignition take first then switch on the other electrical loads. Should be really interesting to see how low the idle fuel use becomes when all the electrical loads are removed.
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Old 09-19-2009, 09:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
Yeah white roof on a sunny day 80-90 degrees (10-20 above ambiant) - interior dashboard temps from sunlight shining through the windshield 130-160 degrees.
What color is your interior?
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:38 PM   #23
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Are you sure about that math?
I was sure, but that was several cars and about 10 years ago.
For a while I had a strain gauge on the front motor mount of my first Passat TDI sedan. I had set the maximum strain load value (span) to the highest load I was able to get on a dyno (150 lb*ft). Zero strain was set with the engine off (offset). Steady-state 30 mph in 5th indicated a bit over 1/10 the full scale 150 lb*ft or just over 15 lb*ft.
15 lb*ft x 900 rpm / 5252 = 2.6 hp.

The engine and transmission I have now in the Oily Rag is the same make, model and state of tune as that one on which I had the strain gauge in 1998 so maybe it is presumptuous, but I expect that the power output required for a 1996 model with a 1996 engine would be similar to my present 1995 model powered by a nearly identical (EGR circuit is different) 1997 engine.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:06 PM   #24
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my car is much warmer in the winter, if anyone has a black car you know what im talking about,

please does someone have a black car here that can verify this?

I have a black car (1984 Lincoln Town Car, no longer driving it due to dead transmission and my wife finds it much harder to get into and out of compared to the Cad Eldorado) and I can definitely REFUTE this!

I purchased the car in '02. The heater core sprung a leak a year or two later. Since the car was assembled around the heater core, it is either disassemble the whole damn car (at least the instrument panel, which is a day or two job if you don't do it every day), or pay the nice man $500+ to do it (been there and done that back in the '90s with an '85 Continental). Consequently, I drove that car for several winters with no heater. I live in the high desert (Lancaster, CA), and drive to Tehachapi, CA every day. Lots of cold (regularly in the teens in the winter), ice and sometimes snow. I've also made the same commute in my white with stainless steel roof '83 Cad, which also has some heater problems. Both cars are IDENTICALLY cold.

I haven't actually measured the difference in temperature, but in the summer, sitting in the sun in my driveway, the black Lincoln feels considerably hotter than the white Cad.

As an aside, when I was a little kid we had a navy blue 1949 Ford. I have a distinct memory of a very hot, sunny summer day, licking my finger, placing it on the car, and hearing the spit sizzle. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to duplicate this with the cars I have now...
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:14 PM   #25
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In spite of the car being black, I could get 20+ mpg on the freeway with the Lincoln, with the AC on. Ya just gotta keep yer foot outta it...
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:43 PM   #26
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In spite of the car being black, I could get 20+ mpg on the freeway with the Lincoln, with the AC on. Ya just gotta keep yer foot outta it...
Aaah, those full size Ford vehicles... I'm salivating over the day when I can finally get my hands on my late grandfather's Grand Marquis. It had only a few thousand miles on it when he died, and I'm sure its got less than 10,000 miles on it now.
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:10 PM   #27
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Aaah, those full size Ford vehicles... I'm salivating over the day when I can finally get my hands on my late grandfather's Grand Marquis. It had only a few thousand miles on it when he died, and I'm sure its got less than 10,000 miles on it now.
Nice thing about the big Fords, they are rugged as hell. My '85 Continental (not technically full size---actually it was a mid sized body with full size Ford running gear) went over 400k miles before it wore out - the transmission thing with the Town Car was a fluke (may have been exacerbated by some EOC ...), the car had just passed the CA smog test less than a month before.
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:08 AM   #28
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What color is your interior?
Standard xB - black interior but the windshield is more vertical than almost any other vehicle on the road so not much hits inside during the summer high sun angle only hits the dash which of course is black like most dashboards. Windshield is slightly tinted. The side windows are darker and really get warm so much so that you can feel them radiating heat inside the car. The Polar White color is very white and reflects sunlight like crazy and on a very sunny day you can rest your hand on the painted surface and it may feel a little warm - any silver of black painted body would burn your hand under the same sunlight conditions. I actually polish it in sunlight sometimes because it does not get too warm.

Don't forget that dark surfaces also radiate heat faster so once the winter sun goes down it cools off quickly too. One other thing to consider is that an IR temperature gun responds to the radiated heat and will give slightly different readings of temperature with a white and black surface even if they are the same temperature. It will read higher with a black surface than a white surface with them at the same temperature.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JoeBob View Post
I have a black car (1984 Lincoln Town Car, no longer driving it due to dead transmission and my wife finds it much harder to get into and out of compared to the Cad Eldorado) and I can definitely REFUTE this!

I purchased the car in '02. The heater core sprung a leak a year or two later. Since the car was assembled around the heater core, it is either disassemble the whole damn car (at least the instrument panel, which is a day or two job if you don't do it every day), or pay the nice man $500+ to do it (been there and done that back in the '90s with an '85 Continental). Consequently, I drove that car for several winters with no heater. I live in the high desert (Lancaster, CA), and drive to Tehachapi, CA every day. Lots of cold (regularly in the teens in the winter), ice and sometimes snow. I've also made the same commute in my white with stainless steel roof '83 Cad, which also has some heater problems. Both cars are IDENTICALLY cold.

I haven't actually measured the difference in temperature, but in the summer, sitting in the sun in my driveway, the black Lincoln feels considerably hotter than the white Cad.

As an aside, when I was a little kid we had a navy blue 1949 Ford. I have a distinct memory of a very hot, sunny summer day, licking my finger, placing it on the car, and hearing the spit sizzle. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to duplicate this with the cars I have now...

it depends on the car, and the type of paint used on the car, keep in mind a lincoln has alot more air in it to heat, and material than a 2300 lb plastic car, cold tends to keep steel cold no matter what climate you are in, alot more steel tends to stay alot colder, plus the amount of sunlight that hits your interior thats darks, plus alot more door area to seal, I guarantee my car is alot more air tight than your lincoln, Refute that
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:58 PM   #30
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the equation goes 2300 lbs to heat up with the sun vs 4600 lbs, 2x as much heating?
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