Smokey Yunick Hot Vapor Cycle Engine - Page 3 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 06-13-2008, 10:40 AM   #21
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IMHO, Smokey's engine efficiency didn't have much to do with vaporizing fuel.

Rather, the increased efficiency came from superimposing a "Brayton Cycle" on the Otto cycle:

1) The turbo compressor provides pressure, just like a jet (Brayton cycle) engine.
2) Adding exhaust heat to the compressed air raises the its volume, whereas a jet engine burns fuel to raise the volume of air.
3) PV work (gas expansion work) can be extracted by the pistons, whereas a jet engine uses a power turbine.

The only engine modification needed is a cam with zero overlap. Otherwise, the compressed hot gas would flow out while both valves are open, i.e. without pushing the piston and doing any work.

Smokey's idea was simply brilliant, a piston engine "combined cycle" plant.
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:53 AM   #22
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Industrial combined cycle plants can have thermodynamic efficiencies as high as 85-90% I've heard... even 75% is tripling the gas mileage of a typical vehicle.
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Old 06-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #23
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Use a throttle body type injector, heat exchanger, and supercharger, you can achieve HCCI especially if the load and speed range of the engine are reduced to the "swet spot" in the BSFC map.

These are core concepts of my engine design, running only in a 2500 RPM speed range, only at WOT, and only to recharge accumulated energy storage.
No idling, no high speed operation, with regeneration of storage when braking.

Idling 13% of total energy losses
Sweet spot of BFSC map 100% increase in engine efficiency
Regenerative braking recovering 90% of braking heat loss as power for next acceleration event.
Better aero for high speed efficiency
Engine only runs to restore reserve of power.

Smokey was discovering HCCI many decades ago.

I read an article about the new Honda engine design that uses two valves per cylinder, and two plugs to obtain lean burn with swirl and changing the spark timing and which plug fires first depending on speed and load.

Definitely not a high power high speed design, but as efficient as the VX lean burn setup.

Look for it soon in Europe, and hopefully here.

regards
gary
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by R.I.D.E. View Post
Use a throttle body type injector, heat exchanger, and supercharger, you can achieve HCCI especially if the load and speed range of the engine are reduced to the "swet spot" in the BSFC map.

These are core concepts of my engine design, running only in a 2500 RPM speed range, only at WOT, and only to recharge accumulated energy storage.
No idling, no high speed operation, with regeneration of storage when braking.

Idling 13% of total energy losses
Sweet spot of BFSC map 100% increase in engine efficiency
Regenerative braking recovering 90% of braking heat loss as power for next acceleration event.
Better aero for high speed efficiency
Engine only runs to restore reserve of power.

Smokey was discovering HCCI many decades ago.

I read an article about the new Honda engine design that uses two valves per cylinder, and two plugs to obtain lean burn with swirl and changing the spark timing and which plug fires first depending on speed and load.

Definitely not a high power high speed design, but as efficient as the VX lean burn setup.

Look for it soon in Europe, and hopefully here.

regards
gary
I too wondered if Smokey was not running in an HCCI mode. Some engineers did suspect detonation as the combustion sounded a bit noisy. Smokey told them it was just an exhaust shield rattling...
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sludgy View Post
IMHO, Smokey's engine efficiency didn't have much to do with vaporizing fuel.
Good vaporization does not hurt but I think you are right.

A turbo makes a combined power plant, it definitely stands to reason that such a unit tuned to full throttle single rpm could achieve a high efficiency.
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:41 PM   #26
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Oregon startup riffing on Smokey

[QUOTE=ShadowWorks;104916]Does anybody know how Smokey got the fuel so hot without pre-ignition?


Smokey Lives.....

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...740.xml&coll=7
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:10 PM   #27
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The idea isn't new -- in patent searches, the company found a 1940s picture of a guy with a similar tank. But the vaporized and expanded gasoline burned far more efficiently than the fuel injection systems that Bushnell bypassed. Driving up Interstate 5, Reid's acquaintance got up to 90 percent increases in gas mileage. He could get 50 percent increases without noticeable performance drops.
Very interesting artical, how hot was the intake air on these cars? can a air flow sensor detect and correct the fuel mixture for a very warm air intake?
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:10 AM   #28
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Simply put, heating ur fuel to around 200 degrees farenheit will allow the fuel to atomize better in the air, some say not necessary on fuel injected vehicles...there are many "fuel heater" designs available. a cold air induction is benificial to power, so, perhaps a combination of the two would make for improved economy and preformance...
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:19 AM   #29
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I see these on ebay from time to time,

I wonder if he explains it all in there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SMOKE...ayphotohosting
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:29 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ShadowWorks View Post
Does anybody know how Smokey got the fuel so hot without pre-ignition?

I have not been able to find any extra information on his Hot Vapor Cycle Engine, the claims he made where fantastic and I tend to believe him based on his reputation and hands on approach.


http://bankspower.com/tech_coolair.cfm
I was fortunate enough to spend several days with Smokey in 93 (maybe 94 ?) cant remeber now...

Smokey was always my hot rod hero, Im 37 and have been reading Smokey since I was 7, I raced bikes, then carts, his engine theory applied to any 4 stroke and I took advantage of EVERYTHING I could learn, when that 1984 Hot Rod came out I was a subscriber and I read it with my 13 year old eyes OVER and OVER, I even used a magnifying glass to look at the pics to try to see exactly what was there.

When I was at the Indy time trials, I had an unrestricted pass, (except firestone tire car garages) I was on Goodyears ticket I was having breakfast and Smokey was behind me with Carol Shelby, I truned around to see where my mom who we were supposed to be meeting there was and saw them , I whipped to my wife and said "I cant belive this do you know who THAT is ?!?!?" Shelby heard me and the next time I turned around asked me if I wanted to sit with them (I still think he thought I was talking about him
Well, Smokey didnt hear soo good, but....when I started asking questions about that engine, he looked up and was quite suprised I had read the patent filings, (my mom was in charge of records and accounting of Goodyear so patent searches were just a call away We talked about it for hours, he told me he had sold the patents to Crane Cams, and they had build prototypes for the Chrysler 2.2 engines for retrofit into chysler Turbo vehicles, he said he had one around the "Shop" somewhere.

I never once asked this question, 440 or so degrees and in the abscence of oxegyn until it hits the "homogenizer" it was not an issue.

The really cool part about the time trials at indy (other than standing in front of Jay leno (I was half crocked) and him asking me if I wanted his autograph and me saying, "No I want you off my trunk so I can get more beer" He was leaned up against my car in the infield as they were shooting the "This is Jay Leno at the Indy 500 time trials...yadada"

The REALLY cool part is for the entire time I was there in Gasoline Alley every time Smokey would see me he would yell "Chris, Chris come here Ive got something important for ya" and people would look over at me, as I would scurry to his side. He told me the first time "Chris I cant hear well, and Im just gonna talk, you nod your head up and down like Im saying something impoertant, and walk with me really fast like we got somewhere to go" He did this so peopl e wouldnt come up to him etc when he had somewhere to go. It was the singular coolest thing a 20 something could have happen to him, He even gave me his home number, He told me to call him and he would see what he could wrestle up on the Crane Version, which I lost, until after he died then I found it with all my other trip pics etc.

Crane Cams MAY have Info , Drawings, hell even a prototype somewhere, I always wondered what happened to the Crane Protoype he was given for testing/tuning....

He had no doubt about it being a "Winner" but he also said it was unfortunatley a bit too many things to operate perfect all the time, I belive this he said was one of the reasons Crane abandoned it.

Anyone know anyone over at Crane R&D ? What I would like most of all, is that MYSTERIOUS cam profile

Cheer Sorry to talk yalls ear off
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