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Old 08-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #41
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Steam Age PWM ...

Take 4 inches of broomhandle, take a 12V dc motor, drill broomhandle for motor shaft, cut equilateral triangle about 3.5 high, by 3.5 base out of copper foil, wrap round broomhandle, make two wipers/brushes, position one at the point where there is 100% copper wrap of the broomhandle, make a sliding shaft for the other so you can vary it's position... with the motor powered, you now have a pulse width modulator variable from 0-100% duty cycle...

However, a sophisticated HHO setup should not need a PWM... my HHO concept is getting wayyy too sophisticated... I may just kludge and bandaid it together to experiment with like everyone else. I would like to have the cell held at constant temperature by the engine coolant. With automatic water top-up (Constant electrolyte concentration) it should require a constant voltage at constant current... no thermal run-away, plus it scavenges engine heat as a proportion of the energy required to operate, instead of the hit or miss environmental heat scavenging according to ambient temperature. (I think it's something like 20% of the energy comes from ambient heat at room temperatures, but you can push that to something like 60% if you couple it to coolant heat. Cell boil over should be avoided by i) never overvolting it, because you don't need extra volts to get it going cold, ii) high electrolyte concentration.. pushes BP up to 240F or so... iii) coolant coupling should also cool the cell if it started making excess heat above about 210F... so you're operating in a constant range of 195-210 ish.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:26 AM   #42
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LISTEN UP!

IT AIN'T GONNA WORK!!!
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:19 AM   #43
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Go hassle the Wright Bros or something.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:49 AM   #44
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my point earlier was more that the mythbusters know science and (though it was probably a half-hearted effort) at least they know what is going and how it should work if it was going to.

it is amazing the people that don't even realize what the stuff does before they hook it to their car.

(not picking on road warrior as he has shown himself very compitent in many different ways)
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
Go hassle the Wright Bros or something.
Go take a chem class or something.
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:42 PM   #46
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Sounds like this video needs watched.
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
Go take a chem class or something.
Don't be ignorant, it's in the freaking equations, specifically this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterma...mic_Efficiency

the term g is 1.27 for gasoline and air ONLY and because it's the power of another term a very tiny change in it has a larger effect on the efficiency than you might think. As it happens, g is the ratio of SHC of the input to SHC of the output, for gasoline SHC is around 2.something, and output is 1.something, for Hydrogen the SHC figure is 7, yes s-e-v-e-n, 3 times that of gasoline. and the output is one. So even 1% hydrogen will show a change in efficiency.

All we have is some practical difficulty in implementation.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:35 PM   #48
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I'm still waiting for Ronn Motors to come out with MPG test results of their HHO system. Their exotic supercar is reported to get 40 mpg.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=129931

They have published the reduction in CO2 and NOX here:

http://www.ronnmotors.com/cms/index....102&Itemid=116

I know that some big companies Enterprise Leasing are testing their system, but they have not published the MPG numbers yet.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:26 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
Don't be ignorant, it's in the freaking equations, specifically this one...

All we have is some practical difficulty in implementation.
You don't get that equation do you.

Here's some reading material that is a better use of time (ho ho ho proponents always remind me of that line in The Rolling Stone's "19th Nervous Breakdown": "And your father's still perfecting ways of making sealing wax" LMAO):

http://www.origin.popularmechanics.c...o/4310717.html

Hydrogen may have a future in ICE efficiency... but it ain't gonna be by glomming it onto an existing ICE.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...ue/index1.html

Here the California gummint is subsidizing/coordinating research into Hydrogen Enhanced Combustion Engines for power plants.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publica...9-2006-012.PDF

Note that the efficiency improvements come from the lean burn cycle and the downsizing; the hydrogen merely FACILITATES controllable lean burn:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...enenhance.html
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:19 AM   #50
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On the Popular mechanics article..

i) EPA tests are useless, they use a "reference fuel" which bears scant resemblance to what comes out of any pump, they have gas-brakes-gas-brakes testing which may represent the average idiot, but is no indicator of economy under sensible driving, either that or your cars mileage is 24 mpg period and you're (we all are) deluded, lying, or faking your gas log.

ii) The guy writing the article is an idiot, look back at his links where he said acetone doesn't work, and on the same page he was telling someone that his non-interference engine was getting contact because the cam was out of time. Sounds like ad hominem, but if someone prone to basic mistakes walks in and tells me the sky is blue, I'm going to go out and check.

iii) Don't know if the system installed was a good one, or even if it was set up right for the tests, notice the "idiot" confessed to "tinkering" with it... hmmm ... in his other HHO article he seems to imply that he drives along maintaining the same injector pulsewidth... rather that trying to maintain constant speed for lowest pulsewidth.... if he's doing that, he's not even letting the ECU turn the mixture back to lean cruise.

However, I agree that 3 times the mpg is very unrealistic.
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