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Old 04-17-2006, 02:41 PM   #41
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nevermind

I saw on the website they sold special filters too. Although 100,000mi. on a filter seems kinda ridiculous, but so does 150k miles on the same oil.
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Old 04-17-2006, 02:56 PM   #42
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There are very very few

There are very very few vehicles that they warranty 100K on a single filter, only a half dozen.
I don't know what Jan's filter change inverval but on a 2.8L V6 the filter will last 36,000miles.
Also some filters only hold 1/4 to a half quart of oil. So changing the filter would not drain a lot of oil at all
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Old 04-17-2006, 08:25 PM   #43
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Filter

Actually the stock filter is really small but the one I am getting is 5 inches long, stock is about 3 inches and is supposed to last 36,000 miles or three years and you simply unscrew it and drain the oil out of it and put a new one on with a little oil loss - draining the oil out of the filter reduces the oil loss from the filter. Remember it is above the oil pan so taking it off will not result in the oil draining out of the oil pan. The first filter change will have the residual oil from the factory that didn't drain out of the engine when I change the oil for the first time - by then it will have broken down and caught in the filter according to Miro. Neo magnets are also installed on the outside of the filter to trap metal particles inside the filter.

Trying to figure out if I can get more of the oil out of the engine with maybe some air in the filter fittings to blow out oil in the oil galleries.
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Old 04-17-2006, 09:22 PM   #44
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'

Naw air won't do anything Jan. Kerosene evaporates cleanly so pour some into your oil fill while your pan bolt is out. That will gravity flush SOME of your oil gallerys, but its as good as you are going to get. After about 6 hours of engine run time after the oil change, the Kerosene should be all done evaporating.
After those six hours you can check and top off your oil level
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:50 AM   #45
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Switching to full sythetic

My car hit 5k miles on the OD a couple days ago. It's been running on factory oil since I bought it. I had an oil change done by the dealer at 2500mi. I hear the Honda oil is actually a sythetic blend, which is probably why they have such a low viscosity requirement (5w20). Anywho, I've been reading up on some oils and such (www.bobistheoilguy.com) and decided to go with an oil that have moly in it. The only relatively cheap one I could find was Royal Purple, although they never actually say it has moly in it. FYI, moly is molybdenum disulfide. The website says it has similar lubrication properties as dry graphite but is colloidaly suspended in the oil. This is the same stuff in Jangeo "synlube" minus the graphite and PTFE. I've been getting around 32mpg so far. I'm pretty sure the engine is as broken in as it's going to get. I've done plenty of loaded 5-6krpm runs up a big hill near me so the rings should be set well. I'll let people know if I see any change in mpg traffic pending. Worse case is nothing happens. Either way I'd just be glad to have sythetic in the crankcase.
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:27 AM   #46
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factory?

Ok which is it - factory oil or dealer oil since 2500 miles?? The oil weight is a function of the engine design - the surface area of connecting rod journals to the crank and ring seal pressure where the oil pressure and weight determine the load requirements film strength to prevent metal to metal contact.

I went to the bobistheoilguy site and searched for synlube and got some comments from guys that never tried it. They don't seem to understand the lube concept about what actually breaks down in the lube and where it comes from. If only engine byproducts of combustion broke down oil then tranny oil would last forever and it really doesn't.

ANYWAY ups is due any time now with my order of Synlube . . . got some more driving to do on the factory oil and the magnets on the oil filter before I change over to it. Testing and time will tell.
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Old 04-21-2006, 11:16 AM   #47
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factory then dealer oil

factory oil when I bought it, dealer oil when I got the oil change.

It's my understanding that the oil actually oxidizes. Oxidation is just like rusting for the most part, and it's accelerated by heat and especially moisture. Your crankcase and tranny are not completely filled with oil so there is air within the housings. Add a bunch of heat with some oxygen and you'll get oxidation which would permanently break down the long-chain oil hydrocarbons. This is why they recommend oil and tranny coolers for race and heavy load applications.

Sythetic oils have sythetic base stocks (the majority of the oil), and additive packages. The additive package usually contains anti-oxidizers (they absorb oxygen), friction modifiers (graphite, moly, PTFE), anti-foaming agents (no clue what those are), detergents (breaks down sludge), and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting about.

I'm eager to see your results for the Synlube. I saw on their website they they've seen increases in MPG from 2-8%. Although, I haven't been able to find any research/test results. I chose Royal Purple for a couple of reasons, but mostly cause they have controlled tests that show reduced heat and wear, and some instances of increase MPG. Not having a scan guage limits me to tank by tank judgement for MPG. With only a possible 4% increase for the RP oil I doubt I'll notice it.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:47 PM   #48
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Re: Switching to full sythetic

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbiker278
My car hit 5k miles on the OD a couple days ago. It's been running on factory oil since I bought it. I had an oil change done by the dealer at 2500mi.
I always thought it was desirable to leave the "break -in" oil in the car for the total mileage recommended by the manufacturer. 2500 miles seems kinda early.
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:54 PM   #49
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Engine Break-in

A new engine really breaks in within the first 500 miles or so assuming you do a couple of things right. The engine has to be loaded to a decent degree and has to rev through the entire RPM band. Back pressure pushes the piston rings against the cylinder wall under load and seats the rings. Under normal driving conditions you'd only do this every so often, say whenever driving up a hill. You can mediate this process by going out and driving up some steep hills repeatedly, or doing a bunch of mild 0-60 runs on level ground. However, if you go nuts with this you can score the cylinder wall since the film strength isn't that great. My manual recommended leaving the oil in there for 5000 miles. To me this seems like really long. The factory break-in oil, from what I've read, actually has less lubrication than most other oils. This is because you want friction to seat the rings on the cylinder wall. Without this friction you'll get a bad seal which would lead to incomplete combustion, blow by, oil consumption, etc.

This topic is still a little iffy. I've seen plenty of forums where people talk about proper engine break in. One guy I saw said after an engine re-build you should immediately rev the engine up to 4krpm. Another guy said the proper way was to follow the manufactures recommendations. I tend to be skeptical of manufacturer recommendations. The only real way to figure out what is the correct way would be to build and engine, drop it in a car, perform an engine break-in procedure, pull it out and take it apart, then compare it to another engine with a difference break in procedure.

If I have any problems I'll be sure to let people know. So far the car has been running fine. I'm sure I could get decent gas mileage if I wasn't forced to drive in traffic everyday. The best I got has been 34mpg which if the EPA. I suppose I should be happy with that since most cars get below that. oh well
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:53 PM   #50
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breakin oil

Apparently the Scion has some very good synthetic oil from the factory and I have heard from other owners that were told to change at 1500 - 5000 miles my dealer wanted it changed at 3750 miles. So far I have 3675 and the oil is a little brown on the dip stick. Breakin was still occuring at up to 2500 miles the way I have been doing it which is gentle revs and once in a while a brisk accelleration. This limits temperature extreems that can overheat surfaces that have not broken in yet like timing chains and gear surfaces. As the engine gets looser the revs happen with less throttle and you can see the increase in MPG as breakin occurs as well.

Synlube recommends breaking in the engine with about 3000 miles before changing to their lube. My shipment came today so later next week I change it after I get a few more miles on the original oil with the Neo magnets on the old filter to remove more metal particles from the engine before I change. The stuff smells like regular oil and the filter seems to be an high performance ACDelco Filter which is surprizing me a little for the price I paid for it. Got 4 quarts of initial oil change and a quart of add oil, 2 quarts of tranny 70-90 gear lube, 1 quart of power steering lube, and a bunch of stickers to prevent some grease monkey from changing the oil. Also some liturature on the small car they are importing for electric EV conversion. It looks like all the lubes are pretty black which is what I expected with the graphite and moly in it.

As far as oxidation it will only happen if the oil can react with oxygen and not all lubrications react - silicone oils remain very stable and yet are an oil.
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