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Old 07-10-2007, 08:58 AM   #1
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Thinking about upgrading Air Intake System so I can use high flow cone air filter

Ive heard that high flow air filters can increase your mpg. (Just replacing from a dirty to a clean filter increased my mpg by about 1-2 mpg). Ive also heard that Cone filters ou get more air flow from Cone filters in their own air intake systems.
I was wondering if anyone knows if the Air Intake System I found on Ebay would increase my mpg. Here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...6859595&rd=1,1

Another question is what is difference between warm air intake and cold air intake. How do I change from cold air to warm air intake? Is is just from WHERE the air is taken from. If so can this intake system off Ebay simply be redirected to get warm air. Ive heard (from HERE) that warm air is more efficient than cold air. I know that sometimes these high flow filters can increase power/FE, but I really just care about FE for now although more power would be sweet as well. FE is REAL goal for now. Last questionis would it just be better to get high flow K&N filter for my STOCK intake. I think that lets in less air but its a super simple mod (not REALLY a mod) but I suppose that there might be a point where any more air might be bad for FE. Is this even true.

I have 98 Camry LE 4cyl automatic. Last tank was 34 mpg. Low traffic week, a few hilly roads, occasional idle P&G, very slow driving. Max miles for one tank so far is 593. My goal is a 650 mile tank and over 35 mpg. Im amazed to even get 34 mpg which is way better than 27+ I was getting a few months ago when I was just passing 520ish miles on one tank. BTW, I think I have 18.5 gal tank which I practically EMPTY after every fill. I do LOTS of driving. THANKS a mil for any responses. Congrats CO for your 100 mpg. I hate you
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:29 AM   #2
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Someone did a test, check the experiments forum, and foudn that for him WAI vs CAI pretty much netted the same results.
I think a lot of it comes down to your style. Some people do the slow accel and I have a feeling WAI would work better for this style.

For Wot, pulse & glide, i'm tempted to think the CAI might be of benefit.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:43 AM   #3
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Several topics here:
Is it safe to do?
Will it help FE?
Will it help max hp?

I'm not sure it makes sense for a typical modern engine if you're going for max FE. Now my car is 3030 lb and only 115 hp stock so my modd'ed air intake might be a good thing. Poor thing needs all the help it can get. My stock airbox is right behind the a/c condenser (not working) so I cut out the airbox front and it pulls cold air in directly. It might be hurting me in the cold winter though. Filter holds up well, is not battered by flying junk.

I read that 60-80 deg. F is the ideal intake air temperature (IAT) range. Some guys on this board are working on controls so one could actually control the IAT. I don't think that merely locating a cone filter in the engine bay or some other location is going to give you real control over the IAT. In fact if you pull air from the engine bay you could be pulling in very hot air when the car idles in summer.

We Volvo drivers know that pulling straight air heated by the exhaust manifold intake air heater will ruin an AMM (MAF sensor). That's what happens on our cars when the simple thermostat controlling the damper for that system goes bad. Not sure about other cars pulling engine bay air. Remember it will get pretty warm there, especially with a grill block which you likely will have before too long.

If it were me, I'd change the stock air filter maybe just a bit sooner than the car mfg. recommends. Save the $65 cost of the aftermarket filter and put it towards a ScanGauge. A ScanGauge will truly help your fuel economy. I really wish my car could take one but my car predates OBDII by seven years. Next car I get will be OBDII so I can use ScanGauge, and it will be a stick shift also.
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Currently getting +/- 50 mpg in fall weather. EPA is 31/39 so not too shabby. WAI, fuel cutoff switch, full belly pan, smooth wheel covers.

Now driving '97 Civic HX; tires ~ 50 psi. '89 Volvo 240 = semi-retired.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:10 AM   #4
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...I'm not sure it makes sense for a typical modern engine if you're going for max FE. Now my car is 3030 lb and only 115 hp stock so my modd'ed air intake might be a good thing. ...
I read that 60-80 deg. F is the ideal intake air temperature (IAT) range. ...We Volvo drivers know that pulling straight air heated by the exhaust manifold intake air heater will ruin an AMM (MAF sensor). ...
If it were me, I'd change the stock air filter maybe just a bit sooner than the car mfg. recommends. ....
My car is '98 4 cyclinder Camry so Im guessing that my specs are not far from yours. This eBay claims thats thi sis cold air intake. I guess maybe because thats due to its placement. MAYBE I should just get the K&N filter thats made to replace the stock OEM filter. Even if it doesnt improve FE by much its still worth it as its the last air filter I will have tp buy for this car. I can replace it as often as I want for a minimal cost. Replacing a $15-20 filter at least 3 times a year already costs a lot so replacing it more often at $20 a pop is not really cost effective. A REUSABLE really helps since it wont cost much to change more often. So at the very least I want to install a washable filter. What do you guys think?
Err, I know VERY little about cars. Once I changed brakes and I cam do plain-jane 'replace parts' tune-ups. Whats is AMM??
Would it make sense to have WAI in winter and CAI in summer?? If all I have to do is change where air is pulled from then this may be something that is not too difficult. What is stock air intake system? Is it a wair or cold air intake?
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:38 AM   #5
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AMM = air mass meter, also called mass airflow sensor (maf).
It measures the air entering the engine so appropriately matching amounts of fuel can be injected.

The accelerator pedal actually regulates the air flow via a butterfly valve, basically a flapper in the air duct. AMM located in the duct measures the air flow. Computer operates fuel injectors based on the amount of air it sees coming in (from the amm). Oxygen sensor measures oxygen in the exhaust to fine-tune the exact amount of fuel to provide per unit of air.

Now you're an expert.
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Currently getting +/- 50 mpg in fall weather. EPA is 31/39 so not too shabby. WAI, fuel cutoff switch, full belly pan, smooth wheel covers.

Now driving '97 Civic HX; tires ~ 50 psi. '89 Volvo 240 = semi-retired.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:14 AM   #6
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I found that the ideal temp for power and a good working engine is 52-55F.
Lastnight while tuning my MS and recharging my a/c with the hood up and engine at 195F, my air intake pipe was 127F. That's too damn hot! Mind you it was a 90F degree day and high humidity.
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:29 AM   #7
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older carburated engines often were designed to keep the intake air between 100 and 110 degrees F. not sure how much of that was to help keep the air fuel ratio at a more ideal place by keeping the air at a consistant temp, and how much of that was because it was more efficent, from what I've read it sounds like it was to help keep it running more efficent.

In my opinion K&N filters don't filter enough, I've used them on motorcycles and seen how much dirt passes thru them, that dirt will wear your engine and cause a reduction in gas mileage.
insted I would recomend at the very least a high quality paper filter, better would be a washable microfiber air filter, or a washable foam air filter.
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:40 AM   #8
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In my opinion K&N filters don't filter enough,....
That's my opinion as well. I used to use K&N filters in every vehicle I owned, then I began sending out used oil samples for professional analysis. In every case I witnessed my silicone(ppm) levels skyrocket with the use of K&N air filters. Everything returned to normal when I switched back to paper elements. IMO, K&N air filters are best left in the professional motorsports arena where engines are expendable.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
... In my opinion K&N filters don't filter enough, I've used them on motorcycles and seen how much dirt passes thru them, that dirt will wear your engine and cause a reduction in gas mileage.
insted I would recomend at the very least a high quality paper filter, better would be a washable microfiber air filter, or a washable foam air filter.
Oops, you spoke too late. I already ordered the K&N filter for my STOCK air housing along withthe refresh kit for when you clean it out. I should save in the short/long run as it will pay for itself in filter changes in only a year since I log miles very quickly (over 3000 miles over past 4 weeks already). I'll install K&N as soon as I get ScanguageII so I can see if there is any FE improvement.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:27 PM   #10
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It was proven that at low throttle (Highway cruising, mostly) that the K&N does nothing for FE. Only at wider throttle does the K&N make any difference (If at all)
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