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Old 02-03-2010, 09:25 PM   #11
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yea it took ol henry a while to go to hydrolic brakes BUT properly adjusted mechanical brakes work just as good. he was also cheap, mechanical brakes were a proven strong long lived braking system (most of the rods on my model AA are still useable today) so that appealed to henry. plus he had all the machines and people with the know how to make rods.

yes airplanes and spacecraft are fly by wire using INCREDIBLY sophisticated computers with lots of backup options and highly sensitive components. why do u think they cost nearly a billion + bucks a pop?
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:38 AM   #12
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Most aircraft have triple redundancy in critical systems.

Remember Sioux City.

Engine disintegrated and took out all three systems.

We are seeing just the tip of the iceberg with automobiles that rely on electronics for critical functions.

It's one of the reasons I am so not interested in cars with such basic design flaws, and one of the reasons I think my design offers a better option.

It has quadruple redundancy, and a simple manual override in case of a control unit failure. Lighter vehicles need no power steering or brakes, and that means the is no possibility of a power failure causing a chain reaction loss of control.

I have watched cars go from super simple the stupid complicated. The stupid complicated ones are already proving to be a repair nightmare, FOR THE MANUFACTURER WHEN THEY ARE STILL BASICALLY BRAND NEW.

This is a most predictable circumstance and it will only get worse when the same marginal designs age and are subjected to severe environmental conditions.

Toss some salty slush on any printed circuit and watch it disintegrate.

The mechanical, 67 year old original cable, brakes in my 37 Ford would stop the car with only the pressure I could exert with my thumb. Henry was smart enough to make a car that an illiterate farmer could keep running. No one can keep a new one running and they will be filling the junk yards in less than a decade.

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Old 02-04-2010, 03:46 AM   #13
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yea it took ol henry a while to go to hydrolic brakes BUT properly adjusted mechanical brakes work just as good. he was also cheap, mechanical brakes were a proven strong long lived braking system (most of the rods on my model AA are still useable today) so that appealed to henry. plus he had all the machines and people with the know how to make rods.

yes airplanes and spacecraft are fly by wire using INCREDIBLY sophisticated computers with lots of backup options and highly sensitive components. why do u think they cost nearly a billion + bucks a pop?
Henry was the first to pay his workers $5 a day in wages. His steel was soo good they were collecting old Fords in WW2 for the tool quality steel in the parts.

Cheap indicates a choice that sacrifices quality. Old Henry went bankrupt 3 times between 1900 and 1910, and once he cornered the market on inexpensive transportation no one could touch him for almost 50 years.

A Yugo was cheap, so was a Trablant. How many here have driven a car with 67 year old cable operated brakes that still worked fine. You will never see than again.

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Old 02-04-2010, 09:37 AM   #14
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Henry was the first to pay his workers $5 a day in wages. His steel was soo good they were collecting old Fords in WW2 for the tool quality steel in the parts.

Cheap indicates a choice that sacrifices quality. Old Henry went bankrupt 3 times between 1900 and 1910, and once he cornered the market on inexpensive transportation no one could touch him for almost 50 years.

A Yugo was cheap, so was a Trablant. How many here have driven a car with 67 year old cable operated brakes that still worked fine. You will never see than again.

regards
gary
well cheap in the fact once he liked a design he didnt want to change it or update it even tho his competition was far ahead of him (model A when it was released was outdated in 30/31 when compared to the rest, the quality was still there and he sold 5 million of em between 28-31 but still) cheap prolly wasnt the right word haha stubborn maybe.

yes he did have alot of innovative products steel and plastics at that time(they were soy based and Bakealite) the steel frame of my AA thats been sittin in the field for 60years is perfectly fine, has surface rust but 10 seconds with a wirewheel its gonna look like new

thats why i like the looks and SOME systems of cars 1990 and older (some of those systems can be pretty stupid)
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Old 02-08-2010, 07:53 AM   #15
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:53 AM   #16
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i feel way safer in my saturn with SPACERS than i do in a PRIUS BASED ON NOTHING OTHER THAN I FEEL LIKE FEELING RIGHT.
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:38 AM   #17
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corolla=fail

Toyota investigating Corolla steering problems

wasn't i complaining about the corolla? I can tell by just looking at it that its handles like crap.

Plus I can't believe the passenger leg room, double fail.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/18187485




By ELAINE KURTENBACH, AP Business Writer Elaine Kurtenbach, Ap Business Writer – 2 hrs 11 mins ago

TOKYO – Could the Corolla be next?

Toyota Motor Corp. said Wednesday it's looking into complaints of power steering problems with its popular compact car and is considering a recall as one option. That would be another blow to the world's largest automaker grappling with a spate of safety lapses ranging from sticking gas pedals to braking problems.

President Akio Toyoda also said he's not going to Washington to appear at congressional hearings next week, preferring to leave that to his U.S.-based executives while he focuses on beefing up quality controls — though he would consider attending if invited.

"We are sending the best people to the hearing, and I hope to back up the efforts from headquarters," Toyoda told journalists at his third news conference in two weeks.

Eager to show that his company is taking consumer concerns seriously, Toyoda promised a backup safety system in all future models worldwide that will override the accelerator if the gas and brake pedals are pressed at the same time. Acceleration problems are behind the bulk of the 8.5 million vehicles recalled by the automaker since November.

But Toyota's woes could spread.

The executive in charge of quality control, Shinichi Sasaki, said the company is examining fewer than 100 complaints about power steering in the Corolla, one of its best-selling models.

Sasaki said drivers may feel as though they were losing control over the steering, but it was unclear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes of the steering problem. U.S. officials are also investigating the complaints.

He stressed that the company's internal investigation was still preliminary and no decision had been made, but that the company was prepared to supply fixes — including a recall as one possibility — if it
The company is putting customers first in a renewed effort to salvage its reputation and will do whatever is necessary, Sasaki said. Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corolla cars worldwide last year.

The step suggests the company is responding more quickly than earlier, said Ryoichi Saito, auto analyst at Mizuho Investors Securities Co. Ltd.

"The company's announcement of the probe before a recall is a big positive step for Toyota," Saito said. "It really shows the company has already learned a lesson from the recall debacle by announcing every probe very quickly."

Analysts had mixed views about Toyoda's reluctance to show up at Congress — some critical but others saying it was OK.

Toyota's top North American chief, Yoshi Inaba, will likely face a grilling next week from U.S. lawmakers over safety lapses. Inaba has little involvement in design and engineering issues handled by its headquarters in Japan.

"They want to talk to the really top guy at Toyota," said Koji Endo, managing director at Advanced Research Japan. "I also think Akio-san should be a little bit more proactive and should go to D.C. with Inaba-san."

Unlike Western chief executives, Japanese presidents are not always expected to be an authoritative figure and plays more of a team leader role in a culture that values harmony and consensus. That role is even more pronounced for Toyoda, the grandson of the company's founder.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and NHTSA Administrator David Strickland also are expected to testify at a Feb. 24 hearing by the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Toyota's gas pedal problems and one by the House Energy and Commerce Committee the next day. The Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee plans a March 2 hearing.

Toyoda does plan a U.S. visit, mainly to speak with American workers and dealers, but he said details of his trip are not yet finalized.

Toyoda also acknowledged his company had grown too quickly globally, and the measures in place in Japan to check on defect reports hadn't been enough to deal with "the scale" of America.

But he stressed again that he and his company have nothing to hide.

"We are not covering up anything, and we are not running away from anything," Toyoda said.

The automaker said it was also dealing with questions about whether the gas pedal flaw was electronic and reiterated its investigation has not found any electronic problems.

But it has commissioned an independent research organization to test its electronic throttle system, and will release the findings as they become available.

Scrutiny of Toyota is growing. The U.S. Transportation Department has demanded Toyota hand over documents related to its massive recalls. The department wants to know how long the automaker knew of safety defects before taking action.

Reports of deaths in the U.S. connected to sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles have surged in recent weeks, with the alleged death toll reaching 34 since 2000, according to new consumer data gathered by the U.S. government.

Toyota told NHTSA in January that the problem appeared in Europe beginning in December 2008. Toyota has said it began fixes on that in August 2009, but the company failed to link that with gas pedal problems in the U.S., which surfaced in October 2009.

Toyota took full-page ads in major Japanese newspapers Wednesday to apologize for the recalls in Japan, which affect the flagship Prius hybrid and two other hybrid models.

"We apologize from the bottom of our hearts for the great inconvenience and worries that we have caused you all," the black-and-white ads say.

___

Associated Press writers Yuri Kageyama, Mari Yamaguchi, Tomoko A. Hosaka, Malcolm Foster and Shino Yuasa contributed to this report.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:15 PM   #18
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corolla=fail

Toyota investigating Corolla steering problems
http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/18187485
By ELAINE KURTENBACH, AP Business Writer
...the company is examining fewer than 100 complaints about power steering in the Corolla
Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corolla cars worldwide last year.
Fewer than 100 (safety related) complaints for the world's best selling, most popular vehicle? That's truly a success story
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:50 PM   #19
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Fewer than 100 (safety related) complaints for the world's best selling, most popular vehicle? That's truly a success story
The quote was fewer than 100 safety related power steering complaints. It said nothing about total safety related complaints, nor anything about total power steering complaints.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:01 PM   #20
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Hey just to make things clear I had an 80 VW Rabbit that had a circuit board fuse panel with heavy current relays for the fuel pump that ran hot and would shut down when solder joints failed. THey were also known to fill relays with rain water from windshield leaks and start up all by themselves - I used to leave mine in gear all the time and back then no clutch safety start interlock switch. I also had rear brake lines rust out and fail while driving as well as 90spi fuel lines fail and leak fuel all over the place. My Geo Metro made by Suzuki for Chevrolet was ok until vacuum lines pooled water in the hoses leading to the MAP sensor and would pretty much shutdown the engine into limp mode in cold weather. And lets not forget the front A Arm breaking off. So far my Toyota Scion xB has had NO recalls.
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