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Old 06-08-2007, 07:46 PM   #31
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Check the thread I just posted on emissons. Do a google search on power plants. Cars are not producing smog clouds any longer. Anyone that is in there 50 nows what smog used to be compared to today. As to oil down the gutter thats illegal! Batt. recycling is energy inefficent that is what was trying to be put across. Gas tanks are plastic they turn into vinyl sidding quite easily.
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:51 PM   #32
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The data plus emissions from electric utilities in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York State that provided electricity for EV charging were put into a full fuel-cycle computer model to estimate the GHG emissions of the vehicles. The model estimated that the Solectria EVs emitted approximately 60% less GHG emissions than the Geo Metro, and the electric EPICs emitted about 40% less than the Dodge Caravan. In addition, data show that EVs will reduce fossil fuel use from 51-71% and petroleum use from 91-95% if they use electricity generated by today's electric utility plants.
-http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3864/is_200001/ai_n8894949
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:59 PM   #33
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Your comparing Apples and Oranges. Go back to the emissions thread, you are using years old data. The Geo has not been built since 01 which was a Chevy anyway in that year. 6 years in the emmisions game is decades in other industries. Cars are now nearing O emmisions and running on gas. One of the reasons the industry loves hybrids, natural gas, EV's, and hydrogen is the power source gets them out of a hot seat, and makes them look like a hero in the eye of the uninformed puplic.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:02 PM   #34
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Cars are now nearing O emmisions and running on gas. One of the reasons the industry loves hybrids, natural gas, EV's, and hydrogen is the power source gets them out of a hot seat, and makes them look like a hero in the eye of the uninformed puplic.
I'm a little slow, could you explain what you mean by this please?
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:02 PM   #35
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Which cars that run on gas are nearing 0% GHG emissions? That's all my quote references.

I looked at the emissions thread, and I don't see a link to anything about particulate emissions...
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:04 PM   #36
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I love these kind of statements.
Yeah, me too...

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What are we going to charge them with? Calif. can't even keep all the lights lite. Let alone charge millions of cars.
"Existing U.S. power plants could provide enough juice to switch 84 percent of the 220 million American vehicles on the road from gasoline to electricity.
Scientific American - 14/Dec/2006 "

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What do we do with all the dead batt.? Recycling them are more expensive.
The fact is, dead batteries are a money-making proposition, not an expense. Standard car batteries are reportedly THE most recycled consumer item because the lead is valuable. Base metal prices that support old fashioned lead-acid as well as "advanced" battery chemistries have been rising dramatically in recent years, increasing the financial incentives for recycling.

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Not to mention the power plants cause more green house gasses than gas cars do. No one wants a power plant in their backyard!
Whose power plants are we talking about? Not everyone gets their electrons from coal or natural gas.

Over half of the standard grid mix where I live is nuclear and renewable hydro-electric. On top of that, consumers increasingly have the choice of buying 100% green power. When I charge the EV at my house, it's feeding on 100% renewable non-carbon emitting electricity.

On top of that, the grid is going to continue to get cleaner, so EV transportation will get cleaner along with it. Can't say that about ICE transportation emissions, which inevitably get dirtier with age simply due to wear and/or neglect.

And on top of that, I've read in several places (can't find it at the moment) that even if all EV's ran exclusively off coal generated power, there would still be a net reduction in pollution of all types because they're that much more efficient than ICE vehicles.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:27 PM   #37
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I love these kind of statements.
I wonder why you keep saying things like that. Do you mean it to be condescending? If it's directed at me, I want to fully understand your opening remark.

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Do your homework, one of the main companys pushing batt. development is GM.
OK I will. Is this the same GM of EV1-crushing fame that developed NiMH (using public funds) only to sell it to Chevron in order to keep it (mostly) off the market? Is it the same GM convicted of monopoly and antitrust for killing electric streetcars and railroads in CA? I have faith that GM will continue to do what GM has done in their past.

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They are investing tons of cash to do so. This will benefit all of us and the industry.
It hasn't yet, and how much of the $1.25B in PNGV funds were part of this cash? As late as the end of January, GM was begging the US Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources for even more cash for this. Will we ever see something for our investment? Chevron did.

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Remember one thing you have to charge those cars.
This has been written about extensively and I'm not going to rehash all the possibilities here, none of which by the way, involve CAFE.
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Old 06-09-2007, 01:36 AM   #38
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Matt -

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This is it exactly.

[rant]
As I've mentioned before, Honda won't even sell the 1.3L version of the Fit in America. You KNOOOOW that it gets better fuel economy. Instead of offering that as an option, Honda splits hairs about weight and safety features.

C'mon Honda! I'm certain you could sell a decent number of them here in the states.

It's all about perceived wants. I bet that no one ever thought that the Prius would be as popular as it is, yet it's selling like crazy. Fuel economy is obviously important to enough people for it to matter.

[/rant]

Oh, and some of the smaller European/Asian cars don't meet the US safety standards, nor do they meet the emissions regulations.

But then vehicles like the Hummer are except from emissions regulations due to their size.
I agree, but I also think it is product positioning. What happened to the Honda Civic HX? It probably cut into Honda Civic Hybrid sales. A high MPG Fit might hurt Honda Civic Hybrid sales .

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:45 AM   #39
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I had many friends on the EV1 progect. Batt. development was so bad at the time that 25 miles of normal driving would exhaust it. Let me qualify that staement. A/C on heat and accs. on. You know like normal people. Calif. had lots of complaints because they could drive out, but could not get back. Qoutes have been made and no I can't prove this. With development cost and eng. EV's cost in the neighbor hood of $1 mill. each. That is why they were leased and not sold. And no I'm not avoiding the O% statment, check monday I may have spoke out of turn there. If so apology in advance.
New batt. do not have the lead content old ones do.
In Canada hydro is a great source. In the US no one wants to dam anymorre rivers. If you check the news no one does want a powerplant in there area.
I love all the new energy devieces but they for the most part don't work at night. Let me say this and I'll stop. ( I WANT TO BE WRONG!!)
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:18 AM   #40
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I find the development work GM did on the EV1 (or Impact in the early days) is nothing short of inspirational. I'd love to know more.

I have no doubt that batteries were the car's biggest weakness especially with lead acid. It wasn't their fault: until fairly recently, batteries haven't evolved much in over a hundred years. So they took a fresh new approach to the problem. Rather than wait for battery technology to be market-ready, they designed the car to compensate and be ultra efficient and high performance. Meanwhile, they continued work on batteries and came up with the NiMH for automotive use.

As for the cost, I would figure any such a clean-sheet design and with such a short run would be expensive. So why throw all that away? It was very good.

I have no lack of faith in the American engineers and autoworkers. I recall working with a couple of engineers after they left Ford a few years back who said "they wouldn't let us do it right." It's the management in the ivory tower that troubles me. I've watched the industry avidly for over 37 years and everytime I get my hopes up that they're finally turning the corner on a much needed improvement, it turns out to be another marketing ruse. You see I want to be wrong too.

Maybe the Volt is going to be the answer. It has all the makings of an EV with the range and utility of a gas car more befitting the N.A. markets. It also doesn't have or need the complexity of the Prius driveline. It should also leverage GMs experience with the EV1 and gasoline-engined cars.

I'm just afraid we're waiting on battery technology again. Atleast this time, they've outsourced some of the R&D to companies like A123. I'm really hoping they make it work, and I hope they don't give up on it if it's not yet profitable the first year out the gate.
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