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Old 06-09-2007, 12:49 PM   #41
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If profit was the only goal all the big 3 would stop building small cars period, at least in this country. They lost a huge market to foreign car makers due to the lack of profit and the short site of management a whole segment of car sales has been lost and may never be regained. They have now wised up it is hoped to continue even if large profits are not there. When $2500 is spent before the first part is built you are at a definite disadvantage to start with. Health care, legacy cost, legal fees, ect. Due to this the next generation will not have what we had. They will now be responsible for more of the cost for meds. if not all and their own retirement. There is no longer a pension for GM salary workers. I know mine was frozen at 17 yrs. The cost of competition! With a global economy. Many things will be changing, lets hope it benefits everyone.

On a different note it was a dream to use an EV1 with my metro engine. Boy would I like to see the mileage with that aero combo. Couldn't talk them into giving me one! LOL. Many were used for test mules some are still around. Most of the cars I think the Smithonian got one complete with charger the only one. All others just got the car. Thank liabilities and the fact that other museums sold vehicles after they were donated stopped that practice. Most donated vehicles today are lent, they retain ownership. Sad situation.
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Old 06-11-2007, 04:23 PM   #42
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Hubble Pie!

Ok 0% emmision was a buzz word used by the industry to describe vehicles that met CA. newest emmision standards without needing any changes! Several of GM's and others met these standards out of the box. Sorry to have spoke out of turn! As to the statement about getting them out of the hot seat the industry has a bad image for using fossil fuels. By changing to alternative fuels that don't pollute from the veh., it transfers the problem to those that will provide power, be it elec. or hydrogen which takes some sort of power source to produce in large quanities. That is a big reason for the push for E85 it's green and renewable, just wish it gave the same bang for the buck (no loss in FE).
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Old 06-12-2007, 04:37 AM   #43
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I'd love to see some European cars like the Opel

To clarify, Opel is owned by GM but based in Germany.

Available pretty much anywhere except the USA as far as I know.

Opel Corsa


Next, the Opel Eco Speedster tops out at 155 mph (250 km/h) and clocked an average fuel economy of 113 mpg over a 24-hour road test.
http://www.flixxy.com/fuel-economy-performance-car.htm
Who says FE and performance are mutually exclusive?

M
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:46 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by ma4t View Post
To clarify, Opel is owned by GM but based in Germany.

Available pretty much anywhere except the USA as far as I know.

Opel Corsa
Attachment 570
Next, the Opel Eco Speedster tops out at 155 mph (250 km/h) and clocked an average fuel economy of 113 mpg over a 24-hour road test.
http://www.flixxy.com/fuel-economy-performance-car.htm
Who says FE and performance are mutually exclusive?

M
Saturn will be replacing the Ion with the Opel Astra :

Attachment 571

Now, the Astra is one level up in size from the Opel Corsa, so I would like a smaller Fit/Yaris/Versa model too. Check this out :

Smaller Saturn in the Works?
SaturnFans.com - June 11, 2007
http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Futur...ctsaturn.shtml
Quote:
Bloomberg reported Friday that Saturn is considering adding a smaller vehicle, slotted beneath the upcoming Astra compact, to its lineup in the next few years. "We think there is definitely room at the bottom for an economy car for Saturn," Lisa Hutchinson, Saturn's product development director, told the news service in New York. "There is a growing interest in fuel economy as prices have gone up." Given Saturn's relationship with Opel, the most likely candidate would be a Saturn version of the Opel Corsa subcompact. The vehicle would give Saturn an entry to battle against the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit.


EDIT : It looks like it wouldn't get here for YEARS!!!
Quote:
AutoBlog commented about the Bloomberg story over the weekend and recalled how GM product boss Bob Lutz told Automotive News at the Paris Motor Show in October 2006 that the Corsa "will very definitely go to the United States." The auto periodical reported that it wouldn't arrive in North America as a Saturn for at least five years. The problem? Sources say that today's Opel Corsa was not designed to meet U.S. safety standards. There has been no word if GM plans to accelerate the arrival of the next-generation Corsa.


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Old 06-12-2007, 08:41 AM   #45
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The energy used to run them is less. You recycle the battery? What do you do with old oil? Pour it in the rain gutter?

Show me some statistics showing that the average power plant produces more GHGs than the average car. I would like someone to show me how a powerplant is less fuel efficient than an ICE.

I would rather have a powerplant in my backyard than a permanent smog cloud over my city!
New (General Electric) combined cycle power plants claim an efficiency of 60%. That works out to a heat rate of just 6814 BTU/kwh.

The best automotive gas engines might break 25% on at peak power, but they're efficiency is abysmal at normal driving speeds. Even old power plants are more efficient than a gas engine.

Add regeneration to the mix, and electric car efficiency beats gas cars by a huge margin.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:10 AM   #46
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just wish it gave the same bang for the buck (no loss in FE).
E85 would give the same bang for the buck if the engine was optimised to run on it, but they have to build the engine to run off any mix from E0 to E85. Running E85 in a flex vehicle is the same as running gasoline in a vehicle with compression around 6 to 1. It'll run, but won't give the same fuel economy that a 9 to 1 or 10 to 1 engine will on gasoline. If you had a reliable source of E85 and could count on never having to run on straight gasoline, you could run the engine at 14 to 1 compression, and get much better mileage and power.

The only way I see to get max mileage from both gasoline and E85 would be to run a turbocharger or supercharger with a variable pressure valve, that will allow you to run anywhere from 10 to 15 to 1 compression at the turn of a knob. But with a reliable source of E85, you could build the engine to run it from the getgo.
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:00 PM   #47
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New (General Electric) combined cycle power plants claim an efficiency of 60%. That works out to a heat rate of just 6814 BTU/kwh.

The best automotive gas engines might break 25% on at peak power, but they're efficiency is abysmal at normal driving speeds. Even old power plants are more efficient than a gas engine.

Add regeneration to the mix, and electric car efficiency beats gas cars by a huge margin.
What are the line losses to your home? The power plant may be 60% efficient, but how much juice is lost along the way? And yes, the same argument can and should be made for gas stations.

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Old 06-12-2007, 01:49 PM   #48
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E85 would give the same bang for the buck if the engine was optimised to run on it, but they have to build the engine to run off any mix from E0 to E85. Running E85 in a flex vehicle is the same as running gasoline in a vehicle with compression around 6 to 1. It'll run, but won't give the same fuel economy that a 9 to 1 or 10 to 1 engine will on gasoline. If you had a reliable source of E85 and could count on never having to run on straight gasoline, you could run the engine at 14 to 1 compression, and get much better mileage and power.

The only way I see to get max mileage from both gasoline and E85 would be to run a turbocharger or supercharger with a variable pressure valve, that will allow you to run anywhere from 10 to 15 to 1 compression at the turn of a knob. But with a reliable source of E85, you could build the engine to run it from the getgo.
In south america they do run 100% alcohol as they call it, in quite a number of cars. But in colder weather they have a small container underhood that looks like a coolant overflow bottle that looks to hold a liter of gasoline. It helps to warm up the car in 45 degree weather? We were having a little trouble with celsus to f conversion.

Problem in this country would the puplic put up with any inconvinence? Or have to turn knobs?
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