Using heavier viscosity oil to increase fuel economy?

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

... Synlube doesn't break down and produce sludge because it doesn't have the sulfur compounds in it like convential oils and it also relies on the solids Moly and PTFE ....

My BS meter is sounding loud here....one big reason SLUDGE is produced when combustion blow by (exhaust) contaminates the oil, so regardless of oil brand and type, sludge can happen.

Also, you pointed out that SynLube stays cleaner longer....keeps it's color longer....more BS because if a detergent oil is doing it's job, it is keeping the contamination off the internal engine parts, and ON THE OIL it's self, so that when you drain the oil, most of the contaminants are removed too.

When oil "gets dirty" this is a good thing....,when it stays "clean" this is a bad thing.

By the way, where is the scientific data supporting your claims, and please don't refer to your milage log...where are the controls? Can you say "Scientific Method"? Have you opened up your engine to examine the parts?

I'm not saying that SynLube is not the way to go; rather, I am saying that the data you provide as "proof" is not conclusive, to be sure.

[itjstagame]

So I finally read that lubedev.com article. I found it very well written with hardly any pizzaz or boisteresness (or whatever). From the posts here I figured it would all be sermon and no actual proof, but the article is written as fact, not raving really. I expected something like motoman's site (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) which is very much raving or sermon preaching.

I have to say though that a lot of the stuff on lubedev seemed well written and thought out, in a take or leave it approach, anyone sermonizing would be trying to convince you and force their idea on you (with little research). After reading that site I plan on trying some of the things. Some of the things are well proven, like Warm air intake and increased tire pressures as well as common sense things like taller tires to reduce final gear ratio.

Also he did not say use a thicker oil or ANY thicker oil, he specifically mentioned 3 oils that have higher lubricity than normal. I have no idea why 20W50 from walmart would increase MPG but I could believe that some specialized product from a 50 year old company (with multiple racing teams) might have additives that could have increased lubricity.

Anyway I just ordered some Torco MPZ 15W40 Super Diesel, since this was almost the same as my 'normally' used 10W40 Mobil (My father and I have always used 10W40, not sure why, I think because most of our vehicles have 100-200k miles and we figure sacrificing some HP for higher viscosity is fine if it gives us some insurance with higher viscosity in our old engines). I also bought the two additives he mentioned, EAL and Magnets someting something.

I'm driving to build some baseline tanks now but I'm due for an oil change in a couple weeks anyway, I'll switch to the 15W40 and after a tank or two of just that I'll add the additives. I'm honestly not worried about it hurting my engine it sounds like a quality product and they're meant to go together http://www.torcousa.com/ .

I guess we'll find out. The main things that scare me or I find counter intuitive is that he says the oil can be changed every 6-8k miles but that the filter should be done every 2-3k. Huh? Maybe you're just supposed to try swapping very quickly with a cold engine? Or turn the car on it's side with a rotisserie? I'm not sure.

And the suggestion to put a quart of synthetic MOTOR OIL in my Automatic TRANSMISSION kind of freaks me out... but who knows... I guess.

[itjstagame]

So I've finally changed my oil. Filled it up with Torco 15W-40 diesel dino oil (one of his suggested oils). This tank may not count as I've had some idling while tinkering and just took a short trip solely to warm up the engine before changing the oil, but I plan to do one more tank before changing anything else to see the affects.

After that tank I'm going to add the MPZ Magnetic Friction reducer and Engine Assemly Lube to the oil (overfilling it a bit) as suggested and see what that adds if anything.

I'm not using the suggested oil filters, which shouldn't matter. I'm using Fram High Milage, it too is supposed to have some kind of slow release viscosity increaser. I don't see how they could react or fight with one another but I hope they don't.

The previous oil I just took out was Quaker State 10W30 (or 10W40 I don't recall) and I'm quite sure it was regular dino. Filtered through a Fram High Milage (so if the filter adds any milage I would have it in the previous tanks).

We'll see what happens. Initial results, doesn't feel any different really, a bit smoother but it always is with fresh oil.

[MetroMPG]

How will you determine whether the change helps or hurts?

There's no way to isolate any change in fuel consumption you may see from uncontrollable variables like temperature, wind, traffic patterns...

[itjstagame]

Originally Posted by ELF

One thing to consider is the testing done by Lou. Mostly at a steady speed 50 mph,with a fully warmed up vehicle.
I have no doubt you can get the same results with the same kind of testing, however most of us have to start cold, and there is no question that thinner oils will give you better FE during warmup, esp. in winter.
But I think this is a individual thing, your results will vary depending on the condition of your engine and the number of cold starts per tank.

I didn't know he had any tests. I've run Mobil dino 10w40 through winters in my truck, that's kind of my standard, lighter oil in the winter does make a lot of sense, but with a closed thermostat and the insulation/grill block most people hear add the engines should warm up pretty quickly anyway (I realize most wear is the first 10 secs from cold).

Anyway we'll get to see a good cold flow test (well it's summer and 70F now but...) my commute is only 15 mins, so I have a lot of starts per tank. I don't give my truck time to warm up either, just start and go, probably doesn't warm up fully and open the tstat until 3-5 mins into the trip usually.

[itjstagame]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

How will you determine whether the change helps or hurts?

There's no way to isolate any change in fuel consumption you may see from uncontrollable variables like temperature, wind, traffic patterns...

True it will really only indicate something if it's a very large change and over the average. Whether has been pretty all over here for the last 3 tanks and the tanks have varied by 1MPG or so. I think this would have to consistently stay above 21 for me to believe in it.

Mostly I'm just looking to increase my average FE and as we head toward end of summer more likely it's colder and windier, so we'll see. As for traffic patterns, you're right, just today I had some retard pull out in front of me and go 30mph in a 40 zone (I was slowly drifting done from 45 in a coast and was quite pissed). Yesterday I had someone constantly brake for about .2-.3 miles as we come off a hill and into and off ramp, even in the truck I can take this at 55 but had to slow down to 40 for this person and lose all my momentum from the hill). So traffic patterns do hurt, but should wash in an average, though how many tanks over how long I'll have to average I'm not sure. I hated statisics, but I could scrounge through my Psych docs and find the formula for determining statistical relevance.

But yes this isn't an empirical test or anything, just a guy that thought, hey I usually run 10W40 so 15W40 isn't much more, even better 15W is the baseline which means it only has 2.5X multipliers instead of 3X and will hold the viscosity increasers longer and have a higher baseline even after they shear (so basicaly, sounds like good oil, can't hurt) and at the cost for a 5 gallon pail it worked out to about the same per quart as any medium good oil.

I still don't understand why lou lapoint is so against synthetics, I love them as much as everyone else, I'm just trying something different. I've been meaning to try Rotella 5W-40 full syn in the truck as that's what I run in my motorcycle and it's good stuff (though it's not really synthetic it's POA3), so after I run through this stuff in a year or so I'll try that and see if there's a change maybe.

[itjstagame]

Finally filled my tank and it was my best ever, but as was stated, the weather was very fall like this week and I'm continouing with acetone. The change is still within my MPG calculations margin of error +/- 1MPG, so it means nothing to me. This tank should mean more and the tank after when I add the viscosity enhancers.

I have noticed though that the car does not coast as well when in gear, slows down quite a bit quicker. This makes sense with heavier oil, at idle I'm pushing about 40psi oil pressure instead of the 20 I used to push. It runs the same as my other old Chevy from the 80's used to, between 40-60psi on 10W40. I suppose the coasting issue could be more rolling resistance from cooler temps and tires?

I'm in no way endorsing this, just updating results of my use of the oil.