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Old 09-03-2011, 07:42 PM   #31
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

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Originally Posted by add|ct View Post
Interesting that another plug would allow more air to pass even though it's seated into the threads?
As far as piston soaking:

Kreen is a big hit on the other forums for now. It's encouraged to order the stuff by the quart opposed to larger quantities as gallons or larger containers charge a ton more for shipping(haz. mats.)

I'd get a couple quarts of the stuff and try that for your next soaking experiments(plugs out, soak and then manual crank you know)...it's sold by KanoLabs(relatively expensive, cheaper than AutoRx).

http://www.kanolabs.com/engCle.html

PS: I'll post pics of the box when I pull it. ...oh and definitely some parts cleaner would be worth it as a true soaking. If the box is still in tact no cracking etc, I'll just clean it up and be done, also will check the PCV valve again. Thanks for the help!
Not to sure what your asking here???
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:47 PM   #32
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

I would like to give some more insight on what I have been working on lately. I have been doing some low dollar builds on a couple turbo DSM 4G63 engines. Its one of those things that in these times being frugal can also be fun.

My goal is to be able to run a stock piston, ring and produce over 500whp all awhile keeping the engine alive.

In my adventure I have been giving a ton of stock piston and rods from donor engines that the owner is going to replace with after market high performance parts.

Most of the stock piston and rings are gummed up real bad. The top compression ring is usually still loose but the second compression ring and oil rings are a mess. Literally glued to the piston.

I have tried a ton of different solvents at different temperatures to unstick the ring pack. I have had no success. So I have to pry the rings out of their ring lands with a small screw driver to get them to come off.

The kicker then is I do what we did in the old days and run a ring grove cleaner through the ring grooves and clean up the rest of the piston with a red scotch brite and sanding paper. I then reused the same rings that were on the piston and a assemble. I broke a few pistons based on pushing the power level on pump gas but now have came to a point of anything under 550whp on pump premium the engine will live.

This adventure all started out as joke with a friend because we are on major budgets. But now its my new way of building my DSM engines.

OK were I'm going with all this is I'm wondering if there is a cleaner out there that will work??? I have even considered to find a engine that the rings are gummed up after taking them out of the block. Then re-install them and then try some cleaner and see if it will un-stick the rings? Tear the engine down and see what the results are?

I'm sure there are different levels of how bad the ring pack can be and some cleaners might work. But after what I have been through I don't think any cleaner can revise them if they are extremely bad.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:18 PM   #33
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

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Not to sure what your asking here???
Oh, the leak down test, I was referring to that. Where you described having the one cylinder as the test point and another plug/cylinder is the culprit; passing too much air even though it still has the plug installed? I put it like that because it seemed odd to me, but I suppose I haven't worked with too many 'bad' HG issues, let alone perform leak down tests.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:25 PM   #34
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

Ah, I see now what you are describing. I don't have engine tear down experience, and part of me would really like to get into that as a hobby and eventual profession over years(not necessarily for money). I can wrap my mind around something fairly easily once I get the entire concept and functionality...

I'll see what I can dig up on the other site and PM you here regarding the Kreen product. If it couldn't help you, I don't know what could safely while inside the engine without seriously attacking the seals(of course Kreen wouldn't be used for prolonged periods in an engine).
The product itself evaporates out after so many miles(1k-2k or so), while evaporating and cleaning the PCV system as well, IIRC.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:08 PM   #35
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

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Originally Posted by add|ct View Post
Oh, the leak down test, I was referring to that. Where you described having the one cylinder as the test point and another plug/cylinder is the culprit; passing too much air even though it still has the plug installed? I put it like that because it seemed odd to me, but I suppose I haven't worked with too many 'bad' HG issues, let alone perform leak down tests.
Oh I see what your asking now LOL

When doing a leak down test all the spark plugs are removed. This makes it easier to get on TDC for the cylinder your testing.

What happens with a blown head gasket with a cross over is the cylinder next to it will receive the air your pumping into it and make a sound at its spark plug hole.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:12 PM   #36
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

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Ah, I see now what you are describing. I don't have engine tear down experience, and part of me would really like to get into that as a hobby and eventual profession over years(not necessarily for money). I can wrap my mind around something fairly easily once I get the entire concept and functionality...

I'll see what I can dig up on the other site and PM you here regarding the Kreen product. If it couldn't help you, I don't know what could safely while inside the engine without seriously attacking the seals(of course Kreen wouldn't be used for prolonged periods in an engine).
The product itself evaporates out after so many miles(1k-2k or so), while evaporating and cleaning the PCV system as well, IIRC.
That would be cool. I appreciate the time and effort.
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:20 AM   #37
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

add|ct, it sounds like you've got a rather large budget for oils and other liquid products that exceed specification at increased cost or aren't specified for use at all. I'm curious, have you compared the sum total of all the extra oil/fluid effort to the cost of whatever service would be necessary to repair it mechanically?

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But what I have found on a lot of stock engines with high mileage is the rings gum up and start sticking to the piston. This in turn will make you lose power and start consuming oil.

Engines like the VX are more prone to have this issue because of the dreaded EGR system in them. Do to lean burn they had to reduce NOX and did this by higher amounts of recirculating the exhaust gases. The EGR system of these engine was dirty and inferior to today's systems. This will cause the oil to breakdown early and loose its lubricating properties. In turn gum up the piston rings.
I run a little increased EGR in my 1980 Buick and I was thinking of doing more. Do not want that problem.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:52 AM   #38
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

^I have been getting the car serviced and caught up on maintenance on big jobs(tie rods, CVs...done twice long story...timing belt service etc) so oil and fluids have been among the cheapest things purchased towards this car(maybe $250 in oils, filters, and other fluids since owning the car for almost 1.75 years).

I've only started to try out Amsoil, and have made a hobby of a Used Oil Analysis, but it's in a very small sample size(as all of that is expensive compared to basic maintenance in that regard). My goal is to get the complete value of Amsoil by extending out my oil changes to 10,000 miles.

I haven't gone into very expensive solvents, etc; but I have tried some products and procedures in an effort to help the vehicle with carbon. Hey, I even threw $200 at a tech to look over the car for a rough idle last summer and they couldn't really determine anything. I suspected a bad alternator after a 'tester' from the local parts store stated the Voltage Regulator was bad, so the shop I used serviced the alternator and it was within spec. The EGR had been cleaned, IACV had been cleaned, etc.

The things I know about are clutch related now, but I don't know truly whats going on in the engine. On the other hand, I have feeling this battery I'm using won't suffice in the winter and I have a feeling the alternator is working at max output more often than it should be.
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:03 AM   #39
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

[QUOTE=theholycow;163290]add|ct, it sounds like you've got a rather large budget for oils and other liquid products that exceed specification at increased cost or aren't specified for use at all. I'm curious, have you compared the sum total of all the extra oil/fluid effort to the cost of whatever service would be necessary to repair it mechanically?



I run a little increased EGR in my 1980 Buick and I was thinking of doing more. Do not want that problem.[/QUOTE]

I have been running more EGR on my Talon and doing some testing with it. As of now I'm not seeing any increase in mileage. But I think this has to do with the fact my lean burn has increased my fuel mileage as far as it will go.

I'm sure its helping with NOx emissions but other then that its just creating a more dirty burn.

On my Honda I made a long tube (like a exhaust silencer) to try to clean up the EGR system. It work but it would become more maintenance.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:45 AM   #40
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Re: VX getting lousy FE lately, what are the causes?

Well, tonight the clutch was slipping again, but I'm not sure if it was related to being low on fuel or not?

On an incline and I come off the clutch too soon, WOT...high rev, stunted power at the wheels, etc....

This was the first cool spell down south here since the summer began. It's down in the 50s for once. I was thinking that perhaps that(thicker MTF) would have affected disk slippage/power transfer coming from a stop in first, but possibly being on that upward incline again/while also being low on fuel did me in?

Ugh, and I need tires for the winter...and a battery! I was hoping to put off the clutch until next summer. I wouldn't have gunned it then, but someone pulled up close behind me at the light.

The car definitely didn't like it. I went into 2nd and it was still busy in 'recovery' from slipping in first from the initial restart. I'm hoping it's just the clutch, I'd have if the output shaft is going, somehow.

IIRC, someone mentioned their VX had a similar issue and the ISB was needing replacement with the clutch kit as well to fix their symptoms that were similar to this?
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