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Old 06-20-2008, 07:46 AM   #71
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that is an interesting idea. you won't see the same level of temps but you also have the added bonus of boost (if you want to call it that).

I can see it working but at what level would be the question. would it be enough to see a gain or significant gain.

that would be an awesome experiment. but what about when the fan isn't on? if you had to leave the fan on all the time to see the benfits, you may lose all the advantage in fan losses. you could depend on the speed of the car to ram the air in but if you are blocking the grill you would have to strategically place the inlet so that it is in the open area (with a partial grill block).

sorry for the rambling, I am just thinking it out, out loud.

may work may not. I'd like to know about that one, it would be interesting to know.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:48 AM   #72
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"heated air from the radiator"

Just make sure the position of the thing isn't too low. Someday you might have to drive through a deep puddle, and water could splash in. Hydrolock is bad.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:48 AM   #73
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I'm just going by where he said "cutting a hole in the side of the fan shroud"... I'm about 99% sure that would cause a vacuum due to the amount of air being pulled over the new "inlet" and not actually ramming into it.

Think of a rectangle w/ a circle in the middle of it. The rectangle is the shroud, the circle is the hole where the fan pulls air through.... I'm taking it as he is considering mounting an inlet at around the 10 o'clock position of the shroud, next to where the fan is... me thinks that no good.
Ok, I did not consider that. I figured that if I lined the hole up with the fan blade that air is naturally slung against the shroud, and then forced back. I figured I would just collect this air. How about I revise this design then...

Remove mechanical fan and clutch assembly from water pump. Install an electric fan. Install PVC pipe in same location as described before, but place a 90 degree elbow on the pipe inside the shroud facing the electric fan. I'm not scared of adding any electrical draw to the vehicle as I already upgraded the alternator from the stock 120 amp to 150 amps. (I am a big fan of strong electrical systems) There should still be positive pressure on the intake, even at idle, and even more at highway speed.

-Jay
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:51 AM   #74
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"I already upgraded the alternator from the stock 120 amp to 150 amps"

Probably you already realize this, but the extra juice isn't free. It uses extra gas. How much? I dunno.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:52 AM   #75
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Ok, I did not consider that. I figured that if I lined the hole up with the fan blade that air is naturally slung against the shroud, and then forced back. I figured I would just collect this air. How about I revise this design then...

Remove mechanical fan and clutch assembly from water pump. Install an electric fan. Install PVC pipe in same location as described before, but place a 90 degree elbow on the pipe inside the shroud facing the electric fan. I'm not scared of adding any electrical draw to the vehicle as I already upgraded the alternator from the stock 120 amp to 150 amps. (I am a big fan of strong electrical systems) There should still be positive pressure on the intake, even at idle, and even more at highway speed.

-Jay
I think that's a novel idea. Plus, many have seen FE go up from ditching the clutch fan for electrical.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:59 AM   #76
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I think that's a novel idea. Plus, many have seen FE go up from ditching the clutch fan for electrical.
Gee, you had to remind me of that... Now if I do go through with this I'll have to do it in 2 stages... Install the fan and then run 2 tanks to see the impact, then add my heated ram-air.

I don't think an electric fan would make much difference on a 5.7 liter V8 as the A/C only has a barely measureable impact on my mileage.

-Jay
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:51 AM   #77
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how is there a positive pressure at idle?

my fan doesn't cut on until my temps have gotten to (I think) 220-230 so the fan won't be turning so the only time you will have pressure is if the fan is on or you are moving down the road. you won't see a huge difference going down the road unless you are moving fast enough.

does your fan run constantly? I as because I don't know on belt driven fans.

you could do an experiment after you do the E-fan and run a WAI first and then do the setup you describe or vice-versa.

you may see more benefits at highway speeds because of the ram air affect
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:25 AM   #78
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how is there a positive pressure at idle?

my fan doesn't cut on until my temps have gotten to (I think) 220-230 so the fan won't be turning so the only time you will have pressure is if the fan is on or you are moving down the road. you won't see a huge difference going down the road unless you are moving fast enough.

does your fan run constantly? I as because I don't know on belt driven fans.

you could do an experiment after you do the E-fan and run a WAI first and then do the setup you describe or vice-versa.

you may see more benefits at highway speeds because of the ram air affect
I was thinking the positive pressure would come from the radiator fan, especially when combined with a partial grille block aero mod the fan will run more often, and result with higher air temps behind the radiator. Then again, I could put an electric squirrel cage fan on the end of the PVC pipe, that would be a constant positive pressure. I was thinking of more along the lines of a passive positive pressure from the rad fan, which the pressure would increase at highway speed. Maybe I could rig up something with an a/c blower squirrel cage and wire it in with a variable resistor somehow rigged up to the throttle cable. As the throttle is increased, the fan speed would increase as well. My brain is just free wheeling right now. I don't know if the added draw of an a/c blower on the alternator would be worth the gains. I'm also wondering if the mass airflow sensor will sense this extra air, and the computer would add extra fuel to compensate?

If using a squirrel cage fan I would also have to have a low pressue bypass installed just in case the engine started sucking more air than the fan could deliver. (probably only under full throttle, maybe?) Under no circumstances do I want to starve the engine for air.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:29 AM   #79
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on ebay they sell the fans you are talking about for power adders search "electric supercharger" the consensus on them is pretty grim though. for a small engine, you may see some gains if you can overcome the alternator draw and on larger engines they become a restriction at higher rpms because of the volume of air needed.

I still think your idea is valid when you were talkin about a passive ram air. you just won't see any gains at idle unless the fan is on. with my setup (and my grill is blocked about 80-90 percent) the fan has not come on for me since I put all of it on but I have also stopped going through drive-thrus which is where it would kick on for me. I don't think you ever want your fan to come on during normal operation. I think it is more of an "OH CRAP" device to save you from overheating. I may be wrong, all my experience is with newer cars than older anyway.

if it were me, I'd still give it a try.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:36 AM   #80
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Ok, I think the torque converter in my brain just locked up. I'm thinking this... On my vehicle the use of the a/c is already negligable on mileage. The A/C is dumping its waste heat in with the air that cools the radiator. This is increasing the temp of the air behind the radiator. Could it be that using a setup like I'm proposing on my truck will actually yield higher mileage with the a/c on? I love thinking like this...

-jay
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