What would it take to make small cars desirable?

[rvanengen]

Originally Posted by Snax

While I can understand the ideology behind having fewer vehicles, consider the reality that for the average family, both vehicles will likely be driven every single day. When one of those vehicles is a full size pickup or SUV, that just doesn't make sense in the long run from a fuel efficiency standpoint - and there will always be a need for them, however slight or necessary it might be. But that get's back to what I was saying: Why not rent to meet that need, or at least economize by keeping the guzzler parked until needed?

The fact is, we got by just fine with just one vehicle over this last November-August, but it ended up having to be the gas guzzling truck!

Renting a large vehicle when needed is an excellent idea. Two days ago, we bought our son a toy that was too large to fit in the Taurus wagon with all of us in the car...so I simply drove home, dumped everyone off, retrieved the toy, went to class, and then came home. No pickup truck needed...despite the stunned looks of the people in toy store...imagine, remove toy from box, flatten box, load items, and leave. Still getting 22mpg with our large enough car.

Now...if I still had my old Bronco...I could almost park my 190e in the back...but why?? Believe it or not, 8' 2x4's fit in the wagon with the back hatch closed.

The times that we cannot get it to the house (like a big load of cement or 4x8 sheets of wood) we either get it delivered, or rent the home improvement store trucks for about $20.

On the tax topic...how about instead of just punitive taxation, also offer SIGNIFICANT tax credits for hitting high FE targets...this will allow the manufactures to produce the "lower" profit vehicles and still make enough money to be interested?? Otherwise, I saw...stay the *&^*&&%$^%%*^ outta my back pocket!!!

[rvanengen]

I know...that will be the beginning of a lot of broken odometers, missing GPS devices, and obscured plates, methinks!!

[Three6Eight]

I think if gas hit $5 a lot more people would get small cars more people are buying small cars nowadays I think.

For me the gas prices were never of concern since my job isnt far but when I got the Metro thats when I was like wait a second. $3 of gas lasted 2 weeks this is awesome! Thats when I got hooked on economy.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by theclencher

just wait til the gummint starts taxing your car by the mile

they're workin on it

It's already done -- fuel taxing at the point of service.... The same reason why one or two drivers get pissed that I ride my bike on the road - they think because I don't pay fuel taxes, I didn't pay for the road

[theclencher]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in674120.shtml

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by rvanengen

I know...that will be the beginning of a lot of broken odometers, missing GPS devices, and obscured plates, methinks!!

lol no crap, if its got wires, or can be removed, its gonna get tampered with...

[bowtieguy]

wonder how many people are in my position?: can't afford to move($500 mortgage, so why should i?), cutting back on gas(and other energy)consumption already, need 2 larger cars for growing kids,etc.

i don't buy the higher gas prices=less consumption thinking. and you know i don't agree with penalizing ALL for the irresponsibility of some.

i could make these arguments(please don't think i'm attacking certain products or their users--just making a comparative point):

let's raise the tax on alcohol such that it becomes too much for most to afford. this would decrease traffic collisions(DUIs) and the related law suits,deaths,pain and suffering,traffic delays(extra gas and CO2 emmitted). not to mention the positive affect on healthcare.

let's raise the tax on tobacco the same way. much less polluting would result.
some instances of traffic collisions would be avoided. what about healthier children and again less health care claims.

how about outlandish taxing of fast food and nonessential foods(candy, soda, chips, etc.)

let's go REALLY overboard: people like myself get a tax credit(not rebate or write-off) for not smoking,drinking, and going to a health club and chiropractor. and i'm talking a credit for EACH catagory.

the ironic things is these avenues of thought ARE more fair because gas is essential to our ability to function, at lest for now!!!

[rvanengen]

<begin rant>

Well...the problem is that you have to believe that taxing a behavior to stop an "undesirable" behavior is the "right" or moral thing to do. Personally, I think it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

If smoking is bad (we all know it is), then take a stance and BAN tobacco. This will DRASTICALLY cut the number of people smoking because it is just a *tad* bit harder to grow and process tobacco than it is to make moonshine...so let's not get into a "Prohibition" argument.

Plain and simple, if the behavior is BAD, then PROHIBIT it...don't try to tax it. That sends mixed signals to society. Otherwise, why not tax murder??

The same thing goes for gasoline/diesel consumption...if it is BAD, then stop refining and selling it! All taxing does is hurt the people that are least able to absorb the cost, regardless of how our wonderfully inefficient and ponderous government might try to "help" people.

I am begging everyone...stop this wrongheaded discussion of taxing people into compliance...if we want them to use less gasoline, then MAKE cars that use less gasoline. The US fleet turns over in less than 10 years on average...it can be done, but it is so much EASIER to simply tax the ignorant and powerless masses and let big business operate untouched.

</end rant>

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by rvanengen

Plain and simple, if the behavior is BAD, then PROHIBIT it...don't try to tax it. That sends mixed signals to society. Otherwise, why not tax murder??

Bullet control!

[theclencher]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

wonder how many people are in my position?: can't afford to move($500 mortgage, so why should i?), cutting back on gas(and other energy)consumption already, need 2 larger cars for growing kids,etc.

mebbe yoo shouda kept it wrinkled

i don't buy the higher gas prices=less consumption thinking. and you know i don't agree with penalizing ALL for the irresponsibility of some.

price goes up, consumption goes down. pretty much how it works

let's raise the tax on alcohol such that it becomes too much for most to afford.

tax beer more and i may have to kick your azz

let's raise the tax on tobacco the same way. much less polluting would result.

not so sure i like social engineering by gummint

some instances of traffic collisions would be avoided. what about healthier children and again less health care claims.

healthier spawn... how about fewer spawn? abolish dependent deductions on income taxes that are nothing more than breeder subsidies. fund schools NOT by the value of your house but by how many kids you have. no kids = no pay for school. abolish fertility treatments being covered by insurance- stupid treatments can cost upwards of $20,000 and it's not even a medical condition, it's a lifestyle choice. ever wonder why health insurance is unaffordable, here's one factor.

how about outlandish taxing of fast food and nonessential foods(candy, soda, chips, etc.)

how about we abolish bright colors and music and model ourselves after commie china?

let's go REALLY overboard: people like myself get a tax credit(not rebate or write-off) for not smoking,drinking, and going to a health club and chiropractor. and i'm talking a credit for EACH catagory.

hmmm... how about just by virtue of not using expensive medical services, forget club and chiro

the ironic things is these avenues of thought ARE more fair because gas is essential to our ability to function, at lest for now!!!

no. ahhhh... no.