What would it take to make small cars desirable?

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by rvanengen

free trade: commerce conducted unhindered by the governments of any involved trading country.

Does this really sound like a good idea?

I didn't say weather or not it was a good idea... but that doesn't change the current trade agreements

[rvanengen]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

I didn't say weather or not it was a good idea... but that doesn't change the current trade agreements

Nope...sure doesn't...but where I was going is that we do not have free trade or even "fair" trade. Then I hear that US drivers should pay the "real" costs for their fuel, and it makes me wonder who is really deciding all of these questions, and why they have decided to wreck the US.

When and how do we make ALL of the drivers in the world pay the same "costs" to keep the playing field level??

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by rvanengen

Nope...sure doesn't...but where I was going is that we do not have free trade or even "fair" trade.

By the strictest definition, no we don't have free trade - but since the Regan years, we've made most steps toward it....

Originally Posted by rvanengen

Then I hear that US drivers should pay the "real" costs for their fuel, and it makes me wonder who is really deciding all of these questions, and why they have decided to wreck the US.

Not so much that they should -- but that changes would happen at an appreciable rate if they did. But tariffs are not the only cost that this question addresses (tariffs aren't really a consideration at all). Stabilizing regions with oil, the subsidies for domestic oil producers (both direct and indirect), lost domestic jobs from transfer of wealth to other countries, etc. The current costs at the pump already take into consideration any duties collected as a result of tariff....


I think I linked it indirectly before -- but here's a directly link for oil tariffs (note the exempt countries due to free trade agreement)
http://hotdocs.usitc.gov/docs/tata/h...er/0612C27.pdf

[gamby]

It's going to take a lot for the trophy soccer/hockey moms to give up their trophy 6000lb, 12-15mpg beasts that they "absolutely need" to cart their offspring and their offspring's crap around in.

They (their husbands) can afford not to care. They can swing the expensive fuel bills and can afford to pretty much ignore the social implications of their vehicle choice. These same people will carry on and on about protecting their children from every outside stimulus that "might" harm them (i.e. media, school content), but they'll make damn sure to screw up the Earth their precious kids are inheriting--be it through their massive guzzlers, disposable EVERYTHING, bottle water, etc... They can afford not to care.

Therein lies the hopelessness of the situation.

Those of us that actually give a damn are considered freaks/fringe. (Or liberal hippie faggots depending upon whose opinion you ask)

Apparently no one got the memo that families exist in Europe, and somehow these families can transport themselves in smaller, more efficient vehicles.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by gamby

Those of us that actually give a damn are considered freaks/fringe. (Or liberal hippie faggots depending upon whose opinion you ask)

Remind me of a joke....

Why is California like a granola bar?
Because when you take out all the fruit, crazy bits and funky goodies, you're left with a bunch of flakes

[VetteOwner]

well you gotta remember too, european streets are tiny compared to the average us street, they almost have to have a small(or narrow) car to manuver around in just to get places. so maybe there are less bigger cars and more smaller compact cars available to buy(that and i think europeans see them as modes of transportation not social status icons.)

[cfg83]

VetteOwner -

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

well you gotta remember too, european streets are tiny compared to the average us street, they almost have to have a small(or narrow) car to manuver around in just to get places. so maybe there are less bigger cars and more smaller compact cars available to buy(that and i think europeans see them as modes of transportation not social status icons.)

I agree that is a factor. The cities have medieval origins, so there will always be a "little car" niche. I think that's one reason why European cars have had a handling advantage over US cars. European car-volution required tighter/more precise turning radiuses and such.

But the gas tax has helped a lot, too.

CarloSW2

[88HF]

a new crx

[ajohnmeyer]

I was reading an article that talked about the origins of MPG saving driving techniques, it referred to the gas rations of WWII as a major milestone in the public practice of these techniques. It seems that WWII caused a lot of people in this country to make "sacrifices" to their standard of living, they all seem to have had a common sense of purpose that made all those sacrifices worthwhile.

I don't think that we will have a war to be our generations "sense of purpose" to begin conserving, I think it will be brought on by the biggest economic downturn since the great depression, courtesy of Hubbert's Peak. Hard to imagine that I'm about to live through the same thing my Grandfather did when he was a boy. Oh well, I think I'm ready, just waiting on Saudi Arabia.

[cfg83]

ajohnmeyer -

Originally Posted by ajohnmeyer

I was reading an article that talked about the origins of MPG saving driving techniques, it referred to the gas rations of WWII as a major milestone in the public practice of these techniques. It seems that WWII caused a lot of people in this country to make "sacrifices" to their standard of living, they all seem to have had a common sense of purpose that made all those sacrifices worthwhile.

I don't think that we will have a war to be our generations "sense of purpose" to begin conserving, I think it will be brought on by the biggest economic downturn since the great depression, courtesy of Hubbert's Peak. Hard to imagine that I'm about to live through the same thing my Grandfather did when he was a boy. Oh well, I think I'm ready, just waiting on Saudi Arabia.

110% agreement. That's why I have a WWII gas ration card on my car :

Attachment 1008

CarloSW2