Why can't we have these??? - Page 5 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 02-18-2012, 09:07 PM   #41
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Re: Why can't we have these???

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Originally Posted by Biffmeistro View Post
Japan and Europe use RON only for their octane ratings.
USA uses AKI octane ratings, which are consistently lower than RON
According to Wiki:
PetroCanada 94 is rated at 101 octane RON, but only 94 octane AKI
EuroSuper 95 octane is only rated at 90 octane AKI
Shell V Power 94 octane is rated at 98 RON.
Even "Regular" 87 octane in the US is 91-92 octane via the RON method.
Which still puts US gas as FAR lower octane. Our premium octane, 92 in most parts of the country, is lower than their regular. Our regular octane doesn't even come close to their regular, and 87 is the standard for regular octane that most vehicles are tuned for in the US. Forget about the fact that there are places in this country where you still get 85 octane for regular.

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So are you then saying that the 57mpg BMW that started this thread actually doesn't get better MPG than a similarly equipped Passat TDI? That it's just different ways of measuring MPG that makes it appear more fuel efficient than it is?
No, it is still quite fuel efficient.

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Oh, I would say the difference is about 66%, which is a lot.
Saying 66% doesn't really mean that much does it? I could say that someone's hair is 66% browner than mine, but that isn't a very meaningful number. Here is a meaningful number. 40 parts per BILLION. That is next to nothing. Now like I said, look up the emissions data for those vehicles you mentioned. Then maybe, just maybe you will see that NOx isn't what is keeping them out of this country.

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Ditto
Yeah, I am gonna trust the guy with the lab coat a long time before I trust the guy with the suit and tie who wants my money.

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Yup! We're stricter on the only part of emissions that actually prevents a very proven method of improving MPG.
Wrong. NOx standards are't hurting fuel economy. You could never in a million years find an modicum of data to back that up, outside of tuning something for a leaner burn in aftermarket, which causes a vehicle to operate outside of its specs anyway. I can tune a vehicle for a leaner burn without a significant increase in emissions. Granted, there is a point at a lean burn you cannot overcome the increase in emissions, but by then you are losing a lot of horsepower, and the American carbuying public hates that. Why do you think vehicles continue to get more and more horsepower? Besides, there are better ways to get power AND fuel economy out of vehicles, which is why manufacturers just stopped doing lean burn in most cases, or stopped using such an aggressive lean burn. Now, manufacturers use variable timing and cams to change the way the engine runs, fuel mixtures are only lean burn over specific rpms at specific throttle positions. You know, there is something else you are really not considering here either. Lean burn doesn't just reduce engine power, it also significantly reduces engine life. Here we are in a society that seems to think that if anything on their engine breaks within 150,000 miles, it is cheap junk. Then they complain about how they want their old carbed engines back that they knew how to work on and lasted forever, cause 100,000 miles was forever when you were never able to drive your car anywhere.

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Nope!
Good, it is getting tiresome having to explain every little thing to you just because you are so set on proving the government is some evil creature hell bent on keeping you from buying a car you will never buy.
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:25 AM   #42
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Re: Why can't we have these???

I'm still wondering ... why was production of the Civic VX ended?
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:17 AM   #43
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Re: Why can't we have these???

likely for a variety of reasons...cheap gas, more stringent safety and emission requirements, hybrid tech(perhaps honda "thought" this made the vx obsolete?), consumer interest...

btw FOX news does have their slant, but they absolutely report what the other guys won't or can't....PERIOD
just like anything in regard to info, one must sift thru the bozos and the garbage.

one last thing...if one has integrity in respect to paying bills, obeying the laws of the land, responsible purchasing, remaining independent of entitlements; and expects govt to do likewise...he/she IS IN FACT an enemy of the state according to certain groups, especially those in media and supposed representation.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:11 AM   #44
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Re: Why can't we have these???

I don't want to get into a political discussion about who is the enemy. I already have enough friends who are ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative. Let's just say that both sides labels for the other side are usually wrong, and that neither understands the others position, but being too far to either side is almost always wrong. I miss the days when moderates had the largest voice.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:52 AM   #45
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Re: Why can't we have these???

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I'm still wondering ... why was production of the Civic VX ended?

It is my understanding that lean burn created too much NOX emissions, so when that standard increased, they were no longer able to produce that motor.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:19 AM   #46
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Re: Why can't we have these???

I did get the 320dA -09 and it does 47MPG or 5.1L/100km 90% highway 10% city driving. I'm pretty happy with that figure for such a comfortable car that has lots of power too 176hp. Traction control will engage on dry tarmac if you're not careful.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:23 AM   #47
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Re: Why can't we have these???

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It is my understanding that lean burn created too much NOX emissions, so when that standard increased, they were no longer able to produce that motor.
Thanks for the answer! Makes sense why they aren't produced now. I wonder, can anyone verify Jay's thoughts?
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:35 AM   #48
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Re: Why can't we have these???

The emissions is part of it, but the original Insight also had lean burn in the federal versions. So market forces also had a part in ending the VX. Gas prices were still low, and hatchbacks just weren't popular. Honda had cancelled all of the Civic hatchbacks by around 2000. I believe it was more to do with them netting more on the CRV since a few Civic hatchbacks returned, and then the Fit came to the market.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:51 AM   #49
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Re: Why can't we have these???

So, I'm guessing, with this new emissions standard, would it be impossible to make a comparable VX today?
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #50
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Re: Why can't we have these???

Not while using lean burn, but there other options today like direct injection, turbo, and auto start/stop systems.
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