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Old 07-25-2014, 05:52 AM   #11
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I own a Passat TDI and my car has routinely been returning me 50-52 mpg per tank.

At times, on way to work, in early morning, avoiding rush hr traffic, I manage 60mpg spread over 50 miles. The same route back home in slight rush hr traffic gets 48-50 mpg.

I easily exceed the 30 mpg city number from EPA. It's more like 35-38.

Now, all this is "easily" replicated in a Jetta, which is cheaper than Passat (just because of the size) and hence even more popular.
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:02 AM   #12
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A Jetta is also umpteen times better looking than a fugly Prius. Not to mention a certain political affiliation (whether founded or unfounded, non-owners DO have a certain "perception" of Prius drivers...) may be assumed regarding Prius owners that they may not want to fess up to.

Jetta owners are proud of the car they drive. Some Prius owners may be embarrassed to admit they own one, so they don't. Certainly not by posting up on a site like Fuelly.
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:08 AM   #13
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It's a shame you guys don't get VW's ECO version known as "Bluemotion" as it returns 53 MPG city and 78 MPG highway (UK MPG that is)
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:26 AM   #14
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Diesels are hugely popular in Canada as well - I'm sure it started because fuel costs are so much higher than in the US.

The only issue I've ever seen is that if you want to only buy used you seem to only find cars with 300,000 + kms. on them, and to buy a new diesel, the cost premium is usually around $4,000.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:43 PM   #15
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I find Prius to be a very modern and nice looking car. I have never met a Prius owner who was "ashamed" to drive one, most are very happy. IMHO the Prius is very futuristic looking, while the Jetta is has very conventional looks. The one fact I am sure of is the Prius is a much more reliable and less expensive car to maintain than Jetta, at least in USA. Toyota has innovated a car that has a futuristic and unique look, where as the Jetta looks like 10 other manufacturers sedans. The TDI engines are spectacular, I am not putting down Jetta's, but Toyota has really been on the leading edge of HE vehicle design, especially the plug in Prius, I do not understand the Prius bashing that happens often, especially on a site that is devoted to improving gas mileage. Also Prius do seem to be getting about 10 mpg higher than TDI Volkswagons the last few years according to this site.

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Old 11-05-2014, 12:04 AM   #16
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I don't know why Prius' have that image either, credit where it's due, Toyota pretty much nailed the market with the Prius all those years ago, the original models are 15 to 20 years old, there weren't many Hybrids on the market then.

I think the problem is, people buy them and use them as an excuse for a Cliché "planet saver" hence why you see a lot of Hollywood stars buying them. Truth is, yes they burn less fuel, and the hybrid design is very clever, but they are not environmentally clean. A few years ago, the process of the battery manufacturing was exposed, and the fact that the chemicals used were mined and shipped all over the world to be refined, causing huge environmental destruction put a lot of people off.

In the UK, a small diesel car will cost around 50% of a new hybrid (my car was £12,500 a new Prius is almost double that) and you can often get better mileage in a small diesel too so the Hybrid market is very small here.
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Old 11-05-2014, 04:48 AM   #17
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....plus you can't really beat the sound of an oil burner

My gas guzzling V6 will probably last me another 5 years or so, but after that I'm going back to diesel. Hopefully Subaru will have brought their diesels to Canada by then.
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Old 11-05-2014, 07:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draigflag View Post
I don't know why Prius' have that image either, credit where it's due, Toyota pretty much nailed the market with the Prius all those years ago, the original models are 15 to 20 years old, there weren't many Hybrids on the market then.

I think the problem is, people buy them and use them as an excuse for a Cliché "planet saver" hence why you see a lot of Hollywood stars buying them. Truth is, yes they burn less fuel, and the hybrid design is very clever, but they are not environmentally clean. A few years ago, the process of the battery manufacturing was exposed, and the fact that the chemicals used were mined and shipped all over the world to be refined, causing huge environmental destruction put a lot of people off.
The Sudbury mine was used by hybrid opponents as a smear against Prius, but the facts they presented were of overblown or out of date.

The Sudbury mine is one of, if not, the largest nickel mines in the world producing about 10% of the world supply of nickel a year. It was in operation decades before Toyoda decided to build cars, and environmental damage happened, and was cleaned up, decades before the Prius arrived.

The mine produced 43 kilo tons of nickel of 2010. That was the best sales year to date for the Prius world wide with over a half million cars. The batteries for all those cars used was 7.2kt, or 0.017% of the world's nickel output.

Two thirds of the nickel produced goes into stainless steel, which is used in food and pharmaceutical plants, razors, forks, spoons, knives, and various parts of all cars. Other nickel alloys are used in turbines and electronics. It is used in chrome plating, and to make green glass beer bottles. It is hypocritical to attack a hybrid over nickel when it is heavily used by every citizen of the modern world.
Quote:
In the UK, a small diesel car will cost around 50% of a new hybrid (my car was £12,500 a new Prius is almost double that) and you can often get better mileage in a small diesel too so the Hybrid market is very small here.
UK users on a Prius board have pointed out that Toyota tends to overcharge for the Prius, specially the plug in model. There are EU built hybrids from them with more competitive prices.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:50 AM   #19
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Looks good on paper, but I think its more the fact that its marketed as a green car, but the carbon footprint in producing the car is probably higher than a conventional car, the two dont go together. Kind of reminds me of people who buy electric cars, manufacturing aside, the car might emit zero emissions, but the electric used to charge it still probably comes from burning fossil fuels or nuclear.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:26 PM   #20
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But you can't go by just production cost or emissions. The entire lifecycle needs to be considered, and done so honestly, not in a Hummer is greener than a Prius manner.

A typical car in the US has a 28mpg average. Compared to a Prius, over 150k miles that car will emit over 46,000 more pounds of carbon dioxide, not counting the extra emissions to make and deliver that fuel. The Prius may emit more carbon when made, but the greater fuel economy more than compensates for that extra production cost from having lower reduced emissions during its lifetime use.

A diesel car of fuel efficiency equivalent to the Prius will emit 8,300bls of extra CO2. It is likely a slower, and smaller car than the Prius.

When the Prius, or any hybrid, hits the end of the road, the traction battery still has a lot of life left in it. Even when considered dead for use in a car, it can be used in builds for emergency power and peak shaving. Toyota is installing old Prius batteries at their Japan dealers to reduce electric costs with peak shaving. Once the battery is finally dead dead, it is recycled.

The emissions for electric cars depends on where and when they are charged. But lets assume a BEV emits as much as a gasoline car. The BEV emissions are at a power plant. The plant is likely far removed from major metropolitan centers. The gas cars are literally emitting right where you live. It is easier to control emissions at a few, stationary locations vs. hundred of thousands of small, mobile ones. As the power generation gets cleaner, so do the BEVs. Even the old ones, unlike old gas cars with worn emission controls.
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