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Old 02-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bowtieguy View Post
it occured to me today that ford has received help from our gov't, for many years. they seem to have cornered the market on sales of public works vehicles.
That's like saying Honda has had help from compact car buyers. Ford played the game and competed better than anybody else, delivering vehicles meeting the specifications for less than the competition.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
That's like saying Honda has had help from compact car buyers. Ford played the game and competed better than anybody else, delivering vehicles meeting the specifications for less than the competition.
not to THAT degree however. honda's compact market share has to be less than ford's gov't share. just joshing anyway.

BUT, the F150 #1 sales status is a bit inflated/overrated considering that GM's equivalent sisters(GMC Sierra and Chevy Silverado) together outsell it w/out as many gov't contracts.

spoken like a true bowtie guy.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BEEF View Post
better initial build quality???
I wonder the same thing. what about 5 year old quality? My 180,000 14 year old accord just about ran, and drove like a new car. didn't (yet) burn oil!
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:11 PM   #14
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I do see many many old Hondas on the road. Some are very old but still look very clean.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:58 AM   #15
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I do see many many old Hondas on the road. Some are very old but still look very clean.
whats old to you? around me if thier a toyota truck thier rusted in half (frame literally has fist sized rust holed in it) its missing its origional bed no doubt it rusted away. same with nissans

the accords/civics/crx's all have rust galore.

Ive seen my fair share of rusted out domestic trucks and cars too but far more of them.

yea ford and chevy cornnered the fleet vehicles market but id love to see a prius or insight carry around a 1000 lbs of tools, spools of wire, ladders, etc and tow a trailer

hyundai's quality has gotten alot better, my friend has an 09 and its nice inside and has alot of oomph. also that 10 year 100000 mile warrantys pretty good too. hell my chevette had a one year 12000 mile warranty lol

lol only difference between chevy and GMC trucks is the logos and front grille and headlights (not kidding thier interchangeable)
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:27 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by VetteOwner View Post
lol only difference between chevy and GMC trucks is the logos and front grille and headlights (not kidding thier interchangeable)
Actually, with the latest generation (at least the full size), they are more different. In the past, interiors and accessories/option packages were different but the sheet metal, powertrain, and suspension were the same. Now they've got different beds, and other differences I can't remember...I googled it and got this: "unique front ends, hoods, front fenders, grilles, and headlamps, as well as different taillights".

I've seen a discussion of the differences, and I'd say they're now different enough to be considered separate models in discussions of sales numbers. GM had a successful combination (despite constant criticism) with the two badge-engineered siblings, selling more than any other manufacturer, and as a big fan of that lineup I hope that differentiating them doesn't backfire.
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:32 AM   #17
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I still think that longevity will tell the tale more than anything. the look and roominess of a car doesn't matter if the car only lasts a few years. hyundais and kias of old were truely crap and I don't think that too many would argue with me on that one. the new ones, though they look good, how are they mechanically? are the engines and drive trains going to last? they will definitely last the 100k miles of the warranty but is that really a lot of miles? my wifes honda has over 100k on it and she still consideres it new (well newish).

in a few years we will see if hyundai or kia has really made a difference in quality to the things that count, the drive train, ECU, sensors. these seem to be the things that have fallen apart on the ones that I have heard of and yes, they were on the mid to late 90s models but most of my friends had one bad experience and were done with them. most were replaced with hondas or toyotas, and the occasional chevrolet if the price was right (frankencav).

there was an old saying when I was in college. "you can candy coat a terd but it still tasts like ..." you get the idea. in years to come, we will see what the gooey center really is for these cars. I may be wrong, we'll see.
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by VetteOwner View Post
whats old to you?........
By "old", I meant those at least three design generations older than the current models. They are not necessarily rusty, in fact most are not. As I said, some even look very clean and I would say, still lovely. This goes to show that they must be going strong and their owners still won't mind to spend money on their up keeping. I think good cars should be like that.

BTW, I have also seen reviews saying that Hyundai cars have improved a lot in terms of workmanship and reliability.
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