Another hydrogen "breakthrough" - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-17-2008, 10:26 AM   #1
Registered Member
 
flapdoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
Country: United States
Another hydrogen "breakthrough"

Scientists learn from nature to split water
General Science / Chemistry
An international team of researchers led by Monash University has used chemicals found in plants to replicate a key process in photosynthesis paving the way to a new approach that uses sunlight to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
The breakthrough could revolutionise the renewable energy industry by making hydrogen ? touted as the clean, green fuel of the future ? cheaper and easier to produce on a commercial scale.

Professor Leone Spiccia, Mr Robin Brimblecombe and Dr Annette Koo from Monash University teamed with Dr Gerhard Swiegers at the CSIRO and Professor Charles Dismukes at Princeton University to develop a system comprising a coating that can be impregnated with a form of manganese, a chemical essential to sustaining photosynthesis in plant life.

"We have copied nature, taking the elements and mechanisms found in plant life that have evolved over 3 billion years and recreated one of those processes in the laboratory," Professor Spiccia said.

"A manganese cluster is central to a plant's ability to use water, carbon dioxide and sunlight to make carbohydrates and oxygen. Man-made mimics of this cluster were developed by Professor Charles Dismukes some time ago, and we've taken it a step further, harnessing the ability of these molecules to convert water into its component elements, oxygen and hydrogen," Professor Spiccia said.

"The breakthrough came when we coated a proton conductor, called Nafion, onto an anode to form a polymer membrane just a few micrometres thick, which acts as a host for the manganese clusters."

"Normally insoluble in water, when we bound the catalyst within the pores of the Nafion membrane, it was stabilised against decomposition and, importantly, water could reach the catalyst where it was oxidised on exposure to light."

This process of "oxidizing" water generates protons and electrons, which can be converted into hydrogen gas instead of carbohydrates as in plants.

"Whilst man has been able to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for years, we have been able to do the same thing for the first time using just sunlight, an electrical potential of 1.2 volts and the very chemical that nature has selected for this purpose," Professor Spiccia said

Testing revealed the catalyst assembly was still active after three days of continuous use, producing oxygen and hydrogen gas in the presence of water, an electrical potential and visible light.

Professor Spiccia said the efficiency of the system needed to be improved, but this breakthrough had huge potential. "We need to continue to learn from nature so that we can better master this process."

"Hydrogen has long been considered the ideal clean green fuel, energy-rich and carbon-neutral. The production of hydrogen using nothing but water and sunlight offers the possibility of an abundant, renewable, green source of energy for the future for communities across the world."

The research is published this month in the scientific journal Angewandte Chemie, International Edition.

Source: Monash University
__________________

flapdoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008, 02:11 PM   #2
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Country: United States
"Whilst man has been able to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for years, we have been able to do the same thing for the first time using just sunlight, an electrical potential of 1.2 volts and the very chemical that nature has selected for this purpose,"

Hmmmm


"Hydrogen has long been considered the ideal clean green fuel, energy-rich and carbon-neutral. The production of hydrogen using nothing but water and sunlight offers the possibility of an abundant, renewable, green source of energy for the future for communities across the world."

?


Doesn't look 100% pollution free to me, if it takes electricity to power it. I suspect though that the sunlight replaces what would otherwise be even more electricity consumption. The question is, how much?
__________________

Dalez0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 10:23 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 557
Country: United States
That was my thought, too. 1.2 volts is half the information needed. How many amperes at 1.2 volts (or watts) are needed to produce how much H2 and O2?
A one square meter photovoltaic panel array alongside a one square meter wading pool might produce enough electricity needed for the reaction, but will the energy output from the catalytic breakdown produce more energy than a 2 square meter PV array alone?
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 10:36 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
thornburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 162
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
That was my thought, too. 1.2 volts is half the information needed. How many amperes at 1.2 volts (or watts) are needed to produce how much H2 and O2?
A one square meter photovoltaic panel array alongside a one square meter wading pool might produce enough electricity needed for the reaction, but will the energy output from the catalytic breakdown produce more energy than a 2 square meter PV array alone?
That doesn't necessarily matter, as one of the key reasons to create hydrogen with solar power is that it lets you "store" the energy for use at night.
__________________
thornburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 09:58 AM   #5
Registered Member
 
flapdoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
Country: United States
These "breakthroughs" are coming about one a week now,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...elandtransport

Just a few notes from me...
350 C = 662 F (that is within exhaust temps for an ICE)
The highest conventional hydrogen electrolysis machine I have seen advertised is 80%. 60% is a good figure.

Last night on the Albuquerque news they showed 4 hydrogen cars, one was Mercedes. They predict hydrogen will be selling for $4 a gallon. GALLON???
Will the pumps retain the idiotic 9/10 of a cent, I.E. $4.00 and 9/10?
flapdoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 01:48 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 557
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by thornburg View Post
That doesn't necessarily matter, as one of the key reasons to create hydrogen with solar power is that it lets you "store" the energy for use at night.
as does a simple Pb/a battery. Is the breakthrough the energy storage device or the energy production method?

And did you catch this:
Quote:
Testing revealed the catalyst assembly was still active after three days of continuous use...
That strikes me as if the developers are pleasantly surprised that it lasts that long. So it needs an input of light, water, electricity, and manganese clusters. Some catalyst! I thought catalysts were a host or a reaction site that were not consumed. It appears that this device's "catalyst" is consumed during the process. I'd call that "fuel".
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 01:59 PM   #7
Registered Member
 
thornburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 162
Country: United States
(Completely OT post--sorry)

Lug_Nut, you have a LAWN TRACTOR in your gas log.

I can't wait to actually see how many MPG it gets...
__________________
thornburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 07:37 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
flapdoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
It appears that this device's "catalyst" is consumed during the process. I'd call that "fuel".
Good point. I suppose by that logic I could say that gasoline is the catalyst that allows my car to run on air.
__________________

flapdoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another one from Indiana FXjohn Introduce Yourself - New member Welcome 0 05-17-2008 08:15 AM
riding on railroad tracks for fe? civic94 General Fuel Topics 4 03-19-2008 05:04 AM
Challenge you to help me figure out what to do for this terrible commute! jj94auto General Fuel Topics 23 03-18-2008 10:40 AM
Math SVOboy General Discussion (Off-Topic) 8 11-30-2006 05:28 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.