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Old 12-12-2007, 03:08 PM   #11
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Ok, old thread, but what were the final results?

Certainly, this is interesting to me as I put some gas and vegetable oil in my diesel engine.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:12 PM   #12
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And further thought.

Work is completed through power. We can measure power output through BTU's. Ok, some engineers will probably slam me, so help me out.

Fuel products have BTU's that they produce.

Based on these energy equivilants, one can go through BTU's that each produces.

I've never been a great fan of alcohol based fuels because they simply require more to do the same amount of work, product the same number of BTU's.

If biodiesel, diesel, or even an amount of vegetable oil could replace a small portion of the gasoline mix, there might be a net benefit in power production.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:53 AM   #13
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Some people are testing VEGETABLE OIL: at 8 to 16 oz per 10 gallons gasoline.

Biodiesel would be better.

www.oilcrusher.5u.com

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=1734.0

...

While testing my fuel, and its results with diesels, my wife drives a little Jeep suv. 4.0L gas burner.. Over the last several years knowing that she wanted in on the farm raised fuel also we started to play with adding my sf oil to her jeep on fillups.

Well, it helps.. A fuel chemist fellow that works at a big refinery in Ponca City Ok. I got to know over the last few years told me that when they make fuel they crack all the polymers out as they sell them to other petrol chem. needs for more than what its worth leaving it in the fuel,, ( gas and diesel) He said that they were a very important place holder in the fuels atom chain. With out them all the fuel atoms are just bunched together. SO the fuel we get now is not as good as it was 20 years ago.. We all know this fact!

Back to the Jeep.. I have ran it with no problems up to 1/2 gas,, 1/2 oil. NO smoke, no knock,, and about 20% less power. But it did run.. Running a gallon to a tank, ((1 gallon to 19 gallons gas)) showed a constant gain in fuel mileage. From 18mpg to 21 mpg. (+17% gain) But with more testing, just 1 qt to a tank gave the same results. Just needed to supply the missing polymers. The added upper cyl lube does not hurt anything either ! Along with the fuel pump.

This is a homemade biodiesel blend...not veggie oil.

Adding polymers similar to using PIB?

...
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:50 AM   #14
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I don't think that was a bio diesel blend, just sunflower oil.

What's the acronym for PIB?
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclencher View Post
The U.S. Federal Trade Commission summarizes results for products tested by the federal government at www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm. A review of the list shows that the majority did not work, and for those that showed some effect, the benefit was too small to be cost effective.

? Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved
That link was bad on my end.

I found an EPA link, but there was no discussion of using vegetable oil as an additive. Yeah, yeah, they say don't use diesel, etc., but I want to see data rather than just be "told".

Gas has 10% corn in it as it is, and I would never think about doing that. I certainly don't think it helps mileage.
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
I don't think that was a bio diesel blend, just sunflower oil.

What's the acronym for PIB?

The order in which I'd try this would be:


* this guy's home produced oil

www.oilcrusher.5u.com


* B100 diesel

"We choose a Nissan Cefiro because it emitted a foul odor of unburned hydrocarbons irritating to the eyes and nose during engine warm up and idling. I poured 200 ml of biodiesel into the tank, shook the body for a while and started the engine. After 5 to 7 minutes of idling speed, the exhaust odor improved dramatically and at the end of the day of driving the odor of unburned hydrocarbon was gone and engine purred better than before because biodiesel lubricates the fuel system, the upper combustion chamber, as well as the valve ports."


* vegetable oil from the grocery

"...you can use soy in a gasoline engine currently i'm running a 12% soy blend in my ford 300. only negative effects are the smell of burnt french fries and the occasional dieseling when shut off."

The last one is well refined but not for fuel use. Any of these COULD cause carbon buildup and/or stuck rings ...pinging...and who knows what else.

But 8 oz per 10 G is only .62% rather than 12%.


PIB = polyisobutylene

http://www.google.com/patents?id=IDQ...BAJ&dq=5906665

"0.953 grams of the powder in Example 14 were added to 5.319 grams of absolute methanol to make slurry wetted with non-solvent. 87 grams of Exxon 100 Base Neutral Oil were added to the slurry and the mixture was stirred at 260 rpm for 4.5 hours. The resulting solution was very homogenous and very viscoelastic. The concentration of PIB was 0.532% by weight, with 799 ppm of magnesium stearate and 31 ppm of polyethylene wax.

This solution was used in tests of a 1987 Nissan 300 ZX and a 1983 Nissan 280 ZX. The tests on these two vehicles were conducted over essentially the same driving circuit from Apr. 7, 1995 to May 2, 1995.

Both vehicles showed increased miles per gallon (mpg) and increased performance, especially improved acceleration from a stop. The vehicles showed increased mpg (over 10%) in the PIB concentration range (in the gasoline) from 0.4 ppm to 16.43 ppm.

The highest percent mpg increase was 25 for the 280 ZX and 22.5 for the 300 ZX.

Of 12 separate tests on both vehicles the treated fuel always provided more mpg over the untreated fuel without exception."
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugyNA View Post
The order in which I'd try this would be:

* this guy's home produced oil
www.oilcrusher.5u.com
Nothing special. His own grown and pressed sunflower oil. No methanol used to treat the oil to remove glycerin.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:02 PM   #18
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General Motors Corporation.
Some expect GM to file bankruptcy eventually. Probably due to being unwilling to innovate and due to being protected by congress? Beats me. I drive Japanese.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:34 PM   #19
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Well, bloated health and retirement options too.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07333/837618-185.stm
"For years, Japanese carmakers have had an advantage in the "cost-per-car" competition. Because of so-called "legacy costs" for retiree pensions and health care, at one point American cars and trucks cost as much as $4,000 more per vehicle to build at General Motors for instance, than at Toyota."


And what is a "Japanese" car?
"With 63 percent of the Japanese vehicles sold in the United States in 2006 being built in American factories, the number of vehicles imported from Japan has dropped from 3.4 million in 1986 to fewer than 2.3 million in 2006.

"These cars and trucks aren't built in just one city of America or even in one part of the country. Japanese cars and trucks are coming from all over the place, and part facilities and development centers are everywhere, too," said William Duncan, general director, U.S.A., for the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association. "And these are products built with high levels of American parts content, even if the plants are owned by a Japanese brand."

I'd like a Holden.
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Old 12-14-2007, 07:57 AM   #20
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If you try this, I would suggest that you check your oil for polymerization. A guy at biodiesel.infopop tried it in his wife's freestar and had some partially solidified engine oil come out after 3000 miles. When the engine is cold, the unburned biodiesel gets past the rings and into the oil.
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