HAI Experiment

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by NovaResource

And how much of that is attributed to the WAI? And if the WAI helps, why is your winter mileage still lower?

As someone who is interested in science enough to call for proper experiments, it should be pretty obvious to you that winter brings far more variables than air temperature and that a WAI doesn't bring air to a set temperature, and therefore that a WAI would not remove the difference between winter and summer.

35% is easy for a light and aerodynamic car like the Cavalier. I'd like you to do the same with a 3300+ pound crossover like the Tucson or a 4300+ pound minivan, both that have the aerodynamics of a brick.

I averaged almost 35% on my 4400 pound V8 full sized pickup before I quit hypermiling it and instead let it idle in my driveway for hours on end and spent lots of gas recoverying stuck cars.

Percentage above EPA rating is a good way to compare fuel economy efforts across dissimilar vehicles. It's like the "handicap" system in golf. It fails when comparing manual transmissions to automatics, though.

[GasSavers_NovaResource]

Originally Posted by philip1

OK without any raised dander I have a question or two for Nova resource. what is your tire pressure? have you considdered LRR tires for either vehicle? they seem to have helped some on mine. And finally perhaps a grille block of some sort might help reduce the radiator induced drag. Just offering a couple ideas that may help.

I actually ADDED weight to my car when I replaced the tires. I went from 235/60-16" tires/wheels to 235/50-18" tires/wheels. While the overall diameter and width is the same, the 2" larger wheels added 10-pounds per wheel to the car (40 pounds total). So you could say I'm actually hurting fuel economy with them but they look so much better.

As for pressures, I've only increased pressures slightly. 32-psi is standard but I keep them at 35-psi. Yes, going higher would lower rolling resistance and increase fuel economy but I dislike the costs of doing that. With 235-wide tires, that cost is uneven tire wear (more in the center, less on the edges) and an unsafe condition. In my opinion very high tires pressures are an unsafe way to gain fuel economy. 38 to 40-psi is OK for smaller (narrower) tires but once you get above 40-psi you start taking risks. It causes smaller tire contact patches that can be dangerous in the rain and cause longer stopping distances. They are also more prone to blowout from road debris and pot holes (lots of them in PA roads).

A grill block is something I actually considered for my Nova when racing at the track (it's also a brick). I haven't done it yet but I believe in the concept and I am sure it would work. I haven't considered it for the Tucson until coming here. I may try that in the future.

[Philip1]

Originally Posted by maximilian

Philip1, I noticed your grille block looks like it's underneath the grille, rather than on top of it. Do you ever wonder if it would cause even less drag if it were smooth? Be a lot more work I imagine. Maybe not worth it?

I've tried both ways and I found the slightly less obvious behind the grille looked better and made no milage difference. It was more about just having it rather than whether it was in front or behind the grille

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by maximilian

Philip1, I noticed your grille block looks like it's underneath the grille, rather than on top of it. Do you ever wonder if it would cause even less drag if it were smooth? Be a lot more work I imagine. Maybe not worth it?

Like philip1, I have a grille block behind the upper grille on my VW. Mine is that way to avoid making the car look too awful; when you drive as many miles as I do (or used to), it becomes very important to reduce the chance-per-mile of cops noticing you, no matter how hard you try to obey the rules.

Then there's also the issue of looking professional when I arrive at work...

[GasSavers_maximilian]

That's very interesting and lowers the difficulty significantly. My car has no temp gauge or warning light so I'd need some form of safety device. Probably just a light hooked into the fan would do it. OK, I'm done veering off topic. Thanks.

[GasSavers_NovaResource]

Originally Posted by BEEF

I just wonder, you have all of these gas log entries with no data by them. I am being sincere on this one (at least trying to be) why haven't you done any of these things to better your mileage.

Let's just say, I'm not willing to do modification to the aesthetics of the car for fuel economy. Yes, I know smaller and lighter wheels would help mileage but I not willing to go that far (yet, or at least with the Tucson).

Originally Posted by BEEF

I understand the limitations of your wife's vehicle. I actually started a thread about that a while back for my wife and her vehicle.

Yeah, the Sedona takes the kids to school (and idles in the car drop-off and pick-up lines), goes to the grocery store, etc. 90% or more city, stop-and-go driving.

Originally Posted by BEEF

do you have a scangauge? that is worth a good 20% right there and anyone would tell you that.

Not yet. I've considered buying one but the Tucson does have an average MPG reading in the trip computer. I watch that constantly and try to drive in a way to keep it high.

(this post was meant to be sincere and without sarcasm in any way)

Understood and taken as sincere. I'm trying to be sincere too. Emotions do not translate well over the Internet.

[GasSavers_maximilian]

Originally Posted by NovaResource

Understood and taken as sincere. I'm trying to be sincere too. Emotions do not translate well over the Internet.

I keep forcing myself to use emoticons to try and clarify. Still kind of hate those things, but it takes a lot of time to be clear just in text.

[Philip1]

Originally Posted by maximilian

That's very interesting and lowers the difficulty significantly. My car has no temp gauge or warning light so I'd need some form of safety device. Probably just a light hooked into the fan would do it. OK, I'm done veering off topic. Thanks.

a light would indicate when the fan is on quite well. My advice is adjust the opening till the fan stays off while on the freeway.

[GasSavers_NovaResource]

Also something to consider with a WAI is the effect on the vehicles emissions. Warm, less-dense air burns less efficiently and can cause the level of NOx to go up in the exhaust and pollute the air.

[GasSavers_BEEF]

I don't really see how you could accurately experiment with a WAI without some sort of temp sensor?

I (like most others) use the IAT sensor readout for my experiments. that is the figure that the computer uses to calculate fuel usage (along with the o2 sensor).

the scangauge is an awesome tool. it will show you a lot of info. if you don't have one (this is to anyone) look them up www.scangauge.com and see what all they can do.

as a disclaimer, I don't sell them or have anything to do with the company. i just believe in their product.

also, aero mods don't have to look bad. take a look at my grill block. in my avatar, you can kind of see my grill. there is a pic of my grill block in my garage. it just takes time. some people aren't willing to put forth the time to make it look good others are.