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Old 07-07-2008, 01:17 PM   #141
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Wink Yes there will be increases using HHO

Hotcubed tell your dad I hope that his mileage keeps going up...My car is doing great I was out for a while today and noticed the on board going from the teens(starting from zero) up to 70mpg(coasting downhill but in gear).Avg 20 mpg to low 30s on level ground.
Mpcondo as far as the naysayers doing their energy mantra,I hear from this one guy all the time on my blog. His wannabe physicist quotes seem a bit over the top to me. It takes energy to grab that oil out of the ground and process it and then to get it in my gas tank....I have read several places that a car engine is only around 25 percent on its efficiency of combustion....energy waster....then my alternator is turning whether I use that extra electricity that the turning alternator produces or not...so I really don't see where that old "cant use energy to make more energy" mantra has much effect in my energy wasting car that produces more electrical output than it uses...sure maybe in a perfect system that is true, but we are talking about bookoos of waste every time you turn your car on...so I think that there is some extra power to use for my little bottles. Don't you?
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:52 AM   #142
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I put one of these on my 300d that i had been getting 25-27 with my best mpg coming from a 70% highway trip that got me to 28 and the first half tank of fuel 250 some miles gave me 32.4 mpg. I then ran a full 400 miles and got 31.7. Both tests done with the hho hooked up were 80-90% in town driving, and while i was working as a pizza delivery driver, which means i left the car running when i delivered the pizza 30 seconds to a minute every delivery plus i tend to get on it when im pulling out on country roads. last week i blew the fuse to it and immediatly the car felt slow and it was a little harder to start, but when i hooked th hho back up it felt smooth again... i plan to do a blind test where i have my friends unplug the hho or leave it hooked up and try and see if i can notice the difference or if its a placebo.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:53 PM   #143
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There are three companies listed as members of the National Hydrogen Association that sell HHO generators for vehicles. The NHA calls them hydrogen fuel injection devices.

Here is a link to the educational division of the NHA called H2 and You.

http://www.h2andyou.org/caseStudies/injection.asp

According to the site these HHO devices are used in the trucking industry and have logged “50 million miles of real use”.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:25 PM   #144
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MAP's and MAF's

Hi I'm a new member. I'm in the UK. And have been going through the forums on this subject. As I might consider HHO myself.

Something to consider is how much is one prepare to mess with the EFI system. (MAP/MAF & O2 sensor signals). As far as I can determine the MAP sensor (Manifold Air Pressure) only detects the change in air pressure in the intake system with different throttle positions, and is usually situated between the air filter and throttle body.
So does the injection of HHO at the air intake cause a significant drop in the intake air pressure that is enough to warrant the modification of the MAP signal sent to the ECU?

Pretty much the same applies to the MAF (Mas Air Flow meter). It detects the volume of air flowing into the intake (usually done by a spring loaded flap in the airflow. The wider the throttle opening the faster the air is drawn in, the further open the flap). The signal again sent to the ECU (In both cases as part of the fuel/air mixture control loop).
So in this case, Does the injection of HHO somehow reduce the airflow into the intake?
For example. 1L/min HHO = 6millilitres per second injected just after the air filter. Compared to the volume of flowing in to the intake at a steady cruising speed throttle opening. Does it really affect the intake pressure/flow that much?

Also, as far as I can see you would have to increase/decrease the flow rate of the HHO as the throttle opens/closes. Or else you would effectively have a varying fuel/air mixture depending throttle position. (Closed - Weakest fuel/air mixture - higher content HHO. Open - near normal - due to increased volume (litres/second) of air flowing into intake) Is this the case?

In think you'll find MAF's on older EFI cars, I have seen some cars that have both, But the newer and current cars seem to have MAP sensors. Primarily because all they are, Is a small pressure transduder. Where as MAF's were large and precision mechanical devices, More prone to failing.

If there is either no significant drop in intake pressure (MAP) or flow rate (MAF) there should be no need to modify these signals. Wasting time resources and money on something that does not need to be done.

The O2 sensor is the only one that may need signal modification which also may require a signal from the MAP/MAF to compensate for increased intake airflow vs HHO's sort of fixed flow rate (fuel cell performance).
But exactly what does happen in the burn cycle to the HHO? i.e the hydrogen and the oxygen. Where does it go and if they recombine to form water. How does it affect the O2 sensor signal?

There are a load more questions but I leave that for another time.

I wonder how litres HHO I would need inject per minute to get my best recorded MPG of 32.6 (UK miles) up to about 50 @ 56mph? (Mazda MX6 2.5L 24V V6 164hp - Equivalent to Ford Probe GT). Big fuel cell??

I hope someone can answer some of the above questions. The above info about MAP and MAF is deemed from having to find out how all of the different intake, emission, engine position sensors all worked in order to diagnose a fault of the wife's car. Deemed mostly from manufacturer service data, as I have the manufacturer workshop service CD's for her car which explain how all the sensors work and how to test them.

Cheers

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Old 07-19-2008, 05:04 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEIL_N View Post

I wonder how litres HHO I would need inject per minute to get my best recorded MPG of 32.6 (UK miles) up to about 50 @ 56mph? (Mazda MX6 2.5L 24V V6 164hp - Equivalent to Ford Probe GT). Big fuel cell??

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http://www.fuel-saver.org/Forum/showthread.php?tid=680
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:56 PM   #146
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The EPA says these devices don't work as has been reported on the news don't pay for plans you can find free info if you search for it.

It takes more energy to seperate HHO then is produced by it so your alternater will place a greater load on your engine and reduce any gain from the HHO gas. If this worked GM and Ford would be using it to avoid bankrupcy. Don't get scamed

sites like tree hugger say you need a nuclear reactor in tow to run your car on HHO

If it was real the inventers would go to ford or GM and they would make them rich

Prove it to the EPA and get a EPA approved lable if you can do this you will be rich but no one can do this. Don't believe the claims from the scammers
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:11 PM   #147
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The EPA has also felt that it has been perfectly ok for the oil companies to be dumping the excess benzene gleaned off the cleaner fuel required in some areas back into the fuel we burn here. Woohoo, three cheers for the EPA and the increased rates of cancer!

You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that people are attempting to run their motors on HHO, and while some may be deluded into thinking that is the goal, HHO is NOT the fuel. Instead it is supposedly a combustion aid, propagating a more complete and cleaner burn.

I can't honestly say whether it works to that end or not, but rather that the car manufacturers don't do allot of things for many reasons - not the least of which is produce more efficient vehicles due to demand for higher fuel economy. If they did, we would not be seeing car lots overloaded with SUVs and trucks that they can't sell.

HHO systems simply represent an added liability to the manufacturers, providing one more system that the user must monitor and maintain. Even if the engineering and production costs were dirt cheap for HHO injection, that factor alone would discourage most buyers.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:54 AM   #148
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I couldn't agree more snax.
Did you hear about Phil Grahams' 'nation of whiners' comments? Well at least folks on here are all trying to find some answers to the gas problems, unlike phil and others who played major roles in most of our financial problems.

I can thank folks like Phil for my huge deregulated utility(electric rates in the .20/kwh range and rising),rising natural gas rates, and rising cable bills(100/month plus) here in Texas. No wonder folks are whining, our world is tripling in cost(and rising) with our paychecks literally disappearing...

My main hope is that the hydrogen injection will not cause major repair issues with the valves.

According to the critics that I encounter on my blog,
the little jars of water will not furnish enough hydrogen/oxygen to do anything. If they are right, I hope that includes the valve erosion as well....

I don't expect it to be a problem, but who knows really?
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:15 PM   #149
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The actual mileage on my car is now down to 12.5(bottles on or off). My mpg on the car puter says differently. I think I will go with the actual mpg.

I am now going to purchase an oxyisolator for my oxygen sensor that is upstream of the catalytic converter. It is claimed that the upstream oxygen sensor in the exhaust line is the one that is a factor in adjusting the richness of the fuel.

The oxyisolator is an extender to get the tip of the oxygen sensor out of the exhaust gas stream.

I talk about this some more at my blog at http://houseofbugs.com/weblog/?site_id=308
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:43 PM   #150
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I have been negligent with my system. I never reset the computer after putting in the jars and covering the oxygen sensors with foil....duh.

I reset it today and according to the puter it is sh owing better mileage overall, but fillup mileage will tell.

I talk about it on the recently updated blog at http://houseofbugs.com/weblog/?site_id=308
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