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Old 03-13-2008, 04:32 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by flapdoodle View Post

* have you found a way to test for the quality of the gas vs temp? If some of the gas is water vapor due to overheating...not going to be as combustible? Where do you think the upper temp limit is for quality gas production?

Is there some evidence that there is a quality problem? Be assured that any mix of H2 and O2 will burn. I have not experienced any water losses, but I am considering water injection. It may allow a tiny bit more ignition advance.

The upper temperature will be determined by the individual cell, its design, electrodes, electrolyte, and many other variables.

Bill
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"I am trying to built a hydrogen booster and tested out various
configurations i.e. Aaron, Smack etc.

In all the tests i have observed that if we try to increase the gas
production then the temperature of the water goes up very fast and
gets stable at 70-71 deg celsius. (158F) But the most unfortunate thing is
that at this temperature the quantum of steam generated by the
booster is pretty high. I tried to burn the gas (vapour coming out
from container) but it did not explode."

My theory, at least, is that when pushed with too many amps ( too high of a current density > amps / sq ") the temp right where the gas forms might reach a high enough level to make water vapor or steam. Since the gas tends to form on points and edges...with certain cell designs this might happen sooner than later?

Could be this effect causes a runaway cell?

This might explain part of the high efficiencies claimed for the closed cell series type cells...where there are no sharp edges or points...just crosshatching and a relatively large surface area...which would make gas production distribute evenly across the full surface area?

So you could be measuring lots of gas output...but it might not burn.

The FACT that he is seeing stable temps of 158F means to me that these cells are reaching some kind of threshold...which might be where they are just making vapor or steam instead of HHO? Meaning that they stabilize at this temp because all excess energy is going into steam?

So keep cell temps below 158F?
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:49 AM   #62
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That pretty much proves my point that temperature is of utmost important. Your post raises questions...
How can he be getting steam below 100 degrees C?
How do these guys plan to keep the cell cool with an under-the-hood installation?
Trying to light the vapor directly from the generator is extremely risky.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:00 AM   #63
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How can he be getting steam below 100 degrees C?
0C is known as the triple point of water because it's the temperature where it can exist as a solid, liquid and gas at the same time. You don't typically see steam unless it's condensing out of the air. When the air has a lot of capacity to absorb water vapor, you'll see less, when it's near saturation, you'll see more. On cold damp days you see your breath, on cold but really dry days, you may not, I've seen my breath on days where it's been 25C with 100% humidity. The point of maximum steam production at regular air pressure is 100C, but that doesn't mean that some isn't being produced at cooler temperatures. Hold a quarter bottle of water in your hand for 10 mins, you'll see condensation forming in the top of the bottle, just from your body heat.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:57 AM   #64
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I am well aware of that, but the man said "steam". In the context, (I.E. Smack booster) this would mean he is referring to the gasses leaving the generator as a stream through the bubble jar.

The concern is that the product did not burn and it seems implied that non-flammable steam is being produced. I have tried to ignite a mixture of H2 and O2 with a cigarette without success. A small balloon will ignite easily with a butane lighter. More information is needed to make any sort of conclusion to the man's statement, but my question stands... How did he get "steam" below 100 degrees C as he claims?
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Old 03-13-2008, 02:06 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by flapdoodle View Post
That pretty much proves my point that temperature is of utmost important. Your post raises questions...
How can he be getting steam below 100 degrees C?
How do these guys plan to keep the cell cool with an under-the-hood installation?
Trying to light the vapor directly from the generator is extremely risky.
In an ideal world, couldn't you have a circuit that limits the Amps to the HHO generator based on the temperature? If yes, what would that circuit look like?

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Old 03-13-2008, 04:02 PM   #66
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flapdoodle -



In an ideal world, couldn't you have a circuit that limits the Amps to the HHO generator based on the temperature? If yes, what would that circuit look like?

CarloSW2
I am working on just that...
http://flapdoodledinghy.com/HHO_control.html
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:58 PM   #67
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I second ZugyNA's kudos on the work you are doing, .

THANK YOU!!!!!

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Old 03-13-2008, 05:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapdoodle View Post
I am well aware of that, but the man said "steam". In the context, (I.E. Smack booster) this would mean he is referring to the gasses leaving the generator as a stream through the bubble jar.

The concern is that the product did not burn and it seems implied that non-flammable steam is being produced. I have tried to ignite a mixture of H2 and O2 with a cigarette without success. A small balloon will ignite easily with a butane lighter. More information is needed to make any sort of conclusion to the man's statement, but my question stands... How did he get "steam" below 100 degrees C as he claims?
Mythbusters had trouble getting a pool of gasoline to light with a cigarette.
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:29 PM   #69
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I think it takes 1500F to ignite H2? No 1040F.
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:48 PM   #70
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I've got 560C, and while I don't necessarily regard mythbusters as the epitome of scientific investigation, I seem to recall they were seeing an "idle" cigarette at about 400-450C and just getting up to 500ish when drawing on it, by using an infrared thermometer.
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