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Old 05-24-2008, 04:54 AM   #11
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I'd recommend going and asking bitog experimenters if they'd tried that.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:47 AM   #12
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In case no one saw this:

Last tank I saw a 10% gain using a 5 to 1 ratio of Walmart 91% iso to 1 part MMoil.

This = 2.3 oz of this mix to each 10 gallons....3 oz to a full 13 G tank.

I use the 91 % iso because it is cheaper than Heet. When put together they will separate...so you need to shake the bottle before use.

If running an electric pump I'd change the ratio to maybe 3 oz iso to 2 oz MMoil. Or around 4 oz of this mix per each 10 gallons.

When I tested 5 oz per 10 G of this mix AND HHO...I had real good power but LOST mpg. So the amount used is probably critical.
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:21 AM   #13
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Look at the MDS for Seafoam and you'll see it's made of naphtha, isopropanol, and pale oil. So I would say it's safe to put in your tank.

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Old 06-05-2008, 05:57 AM   #14
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol

Looks like regular salt will cause the 9% water to separate?

Unlike ethanol or methanol, isopropanol can be separated from aqueous solutions by adding a salt such as sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, or any of several other inorganic salts.[5] The process is colloquially called salting out, and causes concentrated isopropanol to separate into a distinct layer.

HEET:

Isopropanol is a major ingredient in "dry-gas" fuel additive. In significant quantities, water is a problem in fuel tanks as it separates from the gasoline and can freeze in the supply lines at cold temperatures. The isopropanol does not remove the water from the gasoline. Rather, the isopropanol solubilizes the water in the gasoline. Once soluble, the water does not pose the same risk as insoluble water as it will no longer accumulate in the supply lines and freeze. Isopropanol is often sold in aerosol cans as a windscreen de-icer.

C3H8O...a lot of H in there? ...the only difference between iso and propane (C3H8) is the O atom? iso is liquid propane???

Isopropyl alcohol is cheaply available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively nontoxic and dries quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid (by dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil). << use a top oil...it is a strong solvent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:37 AM   #15
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Interesting about the salt, must have been added to that article recently. Might have to make use of that... 99% and even 70% is getting harder to find, and there's 50% stuff everywhere.

I'm coming to regard both this and other additives as something akin to "liquid combustion timing" meaning they assist in getting peak cylinder pressure in the right spot. High polarity also means they significantly alter interfacial tension (surface tension) by an order of magnitude or more, even in ppm quantities. Nay sayers will whine about "how can such "homeopathic" quantities DO anything" but are obviously ignorant of the chemistry involved. I remember for instance floating a needle in a couple of gallons of water in science class... and seeing a single drop of detergent added to that 2 gallons disrupt the surface tension enough for the needle to drop to the bottom of the bowl.

By the way "water wetter" has a high proportion of isopropanones in the active ingredients (but has a lot of water in it too so don't stick it in your gas) this is only around 10% of the volume, where the other ingredients seem to be solid surface lubes for the water pump and seal conditioners. Anyway, this is a commercial product intended to reduce surface tension in the cooling system to "wet" the interior surfaces better and one can see that the proportions of isopropanones necessary to have that effect is very minimal. However, before dashing some in your cooling system... think about whether you really want to run your motor cooler (thermodynamically inefficient) and how you're going to provide an equivalent of the solid surface lubes (boric acid maybe?) *

Anyway, I need to start trying measured quantities, I've been a "dump half a bottle in to clean stuff out" user, noticing FE bumps on the way, but my recent thinking as stated above is that quantities may be vehicle specific for best results, according to when the peak cylinder pressure is.

Edit:* oh and a teaspoon of brake fluid would probably work for seal conditioner.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
I'm coming to regard both this and other additives as something akin to "liquid combustion timing" meaning they assist in getting peak cylinder pressure in the right spot. High polarity also means they significantly alter interfacial tension (surface tension) by an order of magnitude or more, even in ppm quantities. Nay sayers will whine about "how can such "homeopathic" quantities DO anything" but are obviously ignorant of the chemistry involved. I remember for instance floating a needle in a couple of gallons of water in science class... and seeing a single drop of detergent added to that 2 gallons disrupt the surface tension enough for the needle to drop to the bottom of the bowl.
I'm coming to a similar conclusion, It might be that the gain I'm seeing just happened to occur due to the lack of vac advance...combined with an advanced basic ignition...so maybe a slightly retarded ignition at cruise.

The new EPA avg for this car is 26 mpg...while I typically see 32 in summer mixed...almost 35 with the iso (if it pans out). Never saw a gain using acetone. Will likely try adding HHO at maybe 6 amps on top the iso while retarding timing to some extent to avoid the increased pinging I saw with the last combined test. Also might try setting the timing to highest vac at cruise.

With a newer car where the ignit advance is controlled...you might see the same thing if the ECU retarded due to ping?
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JanGeo View Post
Don't foul up your cat with all that extra oil added - I would think that caster oil would be better since it is a good two stroke lube.
I wouldn't use caster oil either as it doesn't burn well and usually stays an oil in the exhaust(read about why pilots used to wear a scarf). A good ashless 2-stroke oil is more like what you should be using.
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:51 AM   #18
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Any updated mixes of Iso to MMoil? I'm going to try 5 parts Iso to 1 part MMoil and put 4 oz/10 gals of gas in my '01 Dodge Ram 1500 5.2 L "gas hog dog." My city mpg is 12 and my hwy mpg is almost 14. Never better than that. I already tried acetone and only got .5 mpg increase on 2 oz/10 gals.
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:13 PM   #19
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Well you can look at my gas log and see apparent increases when IPA mixes were used, but they appear to fall within regular "noise" levels, and the ambient temperature increase as we go into summer seems to be having an effect... though you could say I'm seeing 1mpg over average, or 5%... but hard to tell. There seems to be a "general" benefit in throwing some through every month or two to keep things cleaned out.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:10 PM   #20
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Saw a boatload of $1 per bottle Iso-HEET at Walmart...had to take up 2 feet of shelf space...so somebody is using it...in summer too. Iso-HEET has oil in it.

You should always use a top lube with acetone or iso...espec with EFI and an electric pump.
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